Yes, I am, but no I am not....

by hillary_step 50 Replies latest jw friends

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Hello Fellow Screen Junkies,

    I have had a number of messages in recent days concerned about my posting style having changes in recent weeks. As you may note I have become a little more combative in my replies of late and have imbued a new sense of tenacity when dealing with certain issues. I have done this deliberately and for a number of reasons and I am pleased that it has been noticed. Let me explain.

    Having been a participating member of this Board for two years I have noticed that a regular diet of WTS bashing can make one sickly and withered and unable to see both sides of an issue. What happens is that a sort of back-slapping, tribal mentality develops such as is noted in English Soccer tribes. Each tribe has its own colors, songs, and 'in crowd' membership. Nothing the team does can be criticized by outsiders, without a melee, flashing fists and teeth adorning the pavements.

    The problem is that after a while, the tribe begins to think it is invincible, that all its viewpoints are at the center of the universe and all statements bashing the opposing team are cheered wildly and accepted as accurate without much scrutiny. The reason for this is that no one person dares challenge the status quo, for fear of brutalization. It mimics a scenario, rather well known to us all, within the walls of the WTS where differing opinions are quickly stifled by majority peer pressure. It would be very sad for example, if people on this Board were actually scared to admit to believing in God, or frightened admit to having gained something positive from the WTS, or even admit that they feel swearing is crass and vulgar, without fear of the tribe leaping on them and given them a good pounding. For example, I am forever grateful to the WTS for giving me the most beautiful and loyal wife on the planet. For helping to keep me on the straight and narrow in my earlier years while many of my peers succumbed to death by drugs. I am grateful for the many good people that I met as JW's. The good-hearted souls who even while locked in a dismal doctrinal prison, found time to show genuine love and kindness and who took care of my sick non-JW parents while I was overseas. I even thank the WTS for the ugly Witnesses, the arrogant unfeeling ones. For they taught me in clear definition, what I must not become.

    You see, chanting in unison and wearing the correct tribal clothes, is no substitute for reasoned argument that sees both sides of any issue. For an argument developed on a sound basis leads to growth, one that is not, leads to further ignorance.

    In the interests of truth it behooves someone to break the mold and actually present other sides of the WTS issue. For example, I recently and deliberately challenged, at great length I might add, the absurd assumption that all or most elders were ?unloving and uncaring?. A generalization that could only be sustained by prejudice and not by fact and universal experience.

    So no, I am not ill as one mailer suggested, I have not lost my marbles and nor am I returning to the WTS. For the person who thinks that I am still a ?JW elder in my mind?, think what you like. Those who know me know the absurdity of your notion, those who do not, welI, you simply do not know me. I have never been a team player, either within, or without the WTS and if it takes a thick skinned person like myself to play the Devils Advocate and actually present some uncomfortable realties, then I have no problem doing that. At least for the next week before I return to my work.

    If my recent posts have upset anybody I apologize without reservation for this was not my intent, if I have surprised anybody - good!

    Best regards - HS

  • jwbot
    jwbot

    :)

  • Dansk
    Dansk
    if it takes a thick skinned person like myself

    Great post, Hillary - unfortunately some of us aren't thick skinned (mine's got thicker since I've been out of the Borg, but......).

    I must say, I wonder where you are coming from sometimes - but I've always respected what you've had to say. I guess the bottom line is so many of us have been hurt by Watchtower that anything seen to be defending it in any way can be quite galling. That's not to say you are wrong and you might not be intentionally defending it - I'm merely stating a fact.

    Personally, I don't know a single good elder - because at the end of the day he is still of the "clan" and his loyalty is there. A good elder, in my opinion, would be to side with the person in the right and not just with his "clan" because he feels that's what he has to do. This happened to me more than once.

    I feel I have moved on tremendously since I first came here and I'm no longer the fire-spitting hard-hitting person I might have been -- but that still doesn't mean I don't want the Society to be razed to the ground and utterly destroyed, because I do! Why? Because while it exists people are getting hurt, e.g. Vicki Boer.

    As for some of your loved ones being taken care of while you were away, would they have been so looked after had they not been JWs; or if they had been DFd or DAd but needed help?

    While you intimate that you don't necessarily want Watchtower destroyed, but perhaps weakened to have to change its doctrines, some of us will still be wondering what you are about. This doesn't mean I don't think you're a swell person - you're welcome for dinner anytime (what do you taste like ?).

    Hillary, I know you command respect here - I respect you - and sometimes a message can be read in a way it isn't meant. We also have different experiences with Watchtower so our sensitivity levels are different. I don't wish any JW harm - but I do want the organisation out of business as quickly as possible.

    A couple of times you've said this isn't possible or likely - but that's what I want!

    It's good to have you around. You often make me take a fresh look at things. I just wish you'd be a stronger Watchtower basher, especially with your knowledge and contacts. This doesn't mean you're wrong - it just means I have a different perspective to yours.

    With sincere respect and friendship,

    Dansk

  • seven006
    seven006

    HS,

    Iv noticed you don't use really really big words a whole bunch like you use too, but that's about it. I just figured you left your thesaurus at crack house or something.

    Dave

  • yxl1
    yxl1

    Nice post, but I must say that I didnt agree with a lot of it. I'm sure most people here can point to some good things about the Org. But I wouldnt go as far to say that I benefited because of them. I met my wife when we were both Dubs, but I wouldnt say it was because of the WTS. Who's to say that I wouldnt have met her if we were never Dubs .... she live only a mile from my house. I too mixed with people who ended up with drug problems and/or in jail, but it never happened to me. I dont thank the WTS for this. I thank my mother and sisters and my own selfcontrol.

    I can honestly say that in my old congregation there was not one single elder who I would consider to be a decent human being (and I include my father-in-law in that group). Not that they did anything against me personally (some did), but the way they tried to control the congregation and their own families, proved to me that these were not men who should be in control of peoples lives. However, I have met elders from other congregations who have been warm, kind and caring.

    You say that chanting in unison and wearing the correct tribal colthes is no subsitute for reasoned argument, and I agree. However, feeling like you belong is a normal part of our makeup. Seeing as we've all spent most of our lives being seperate from the world, and the rest of it not quite fitting in, this forum has been a great way of "wearing tribal clothes". Also I dont think there is much room for reasoned aurguments when you are refering to the WTS, but thats my own opinion.

  • frenchbabyface
    frenchbabyface

    well I understand ... cause I know "every" JW is not a Monster (I mean we were all in at least once / were or are we Monsters ? NO) And it takes time to found out and make decisions about those issues ... Nobody can make it for you. I like "all" what you said it talks to me ...

  • Aztec
    Aztec

    " chanting in unison and wearing the correct tribal clothes, is no substitute for reasoned argument that sees both sides of any issue."

    I agree wholeheartedly! Ironically, my father (an active dub) agrees with me that balance is the key to a happy life. I think you do a great job of presenting a balanced arguement! Keep up the good work!

    ~Aztec

  • Dansk
    Dansk

    yxl1

    I have met elders from other congregations who have been warm, kind and caring.

    Isn't that ALWAYS the way! Some elders from outside congregations seemed to be the type one wanted in one's own congregation - until one spoke to members of their congregations! It seems, at least in my experience, that outside elders appeared to be such wonderful caring people - until one got to REALLY know them.

    The only good elder - in my experience - is an ex-elder, and preferably posting here.

    Dansk

  • dorkycrass
    dorkycrass

    HS - you're right this would be a boring forum if everyone is in agreement.

    That's why I'm here. To play the devil's advocate.

    I have every right to post here, I'm a citizen of the world wide web.

    And the tower on the top left says, ...everyone welcome!

  • Brummie
    Brummie

    HS, this post doesnt lack any of the quality found in your other posts. I dont see much of a change in that respect.

    I have seen you engage in a little quarrel or two over the last few weeks, but even those have been in good humour and handled maturely.

    This opening post is excellent, I dont see much of a change at all. Anyone suggesting you are like a JW has lost the plot.

    Brummie

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