what is the ontlogical trinity (page 5)

cofty

The trinity is beyond comprehension and understanding

This is dissembling. Did you really fall for that? Ha, silly you!

I am not interested in how an atheist justifies the trinity. This is a challenge for christian theists.

In fact the only answer they can give is " I know". And who am I to say they don't?

Me.

It is easy show that christianity cannot be reconciled with reality. However it is easier and more convincing to show that it is internally contradictory.

Christians worship Jesus

Christians worship "the god and father of Jesus"

Christians are polytheists.

The trinity is nothing more than a cosy conspiracy where christians pontificate about words they don't understand and can't explain so they can go on pretending to be monotheists.

It makes the overlapping generation doctrine sound rational.

cofty

"but this does not mean it can not be apprehended by the human mind"

No it can't. Go ahead and ponder a mental image of the trinity. I guarantee you will be picturing a heresy.

Cofty " The trinity booklet" produced by the society, certainly made me aware of the deceptive, dishonest and deliberately misleading way they produced their literature. And it clarified to me why when they sourced material, they failed to provide the page or volume of the quote.

Anyway thank you for your viewpoint and allowing me to express mine.

The Rebel

Vanderhoven7

<<Please explain in very simple language...>>

Sure.

I am not a polytheist if the unity of Father and Son is ontological (i.e. that separate persons if fact constitute one being).

cofty

The Challenge

Imagine you are talking to somebody who knows nothing at all about christianity. They have heard that Jesus is god and also that Jesus has a god and father. Further they have heard christians talk of the holy spirit in personal terms. Please explain this apparent contradiction succinctly and avoid specialist theological terms.

Vanders Response

I am not a polytheist if the unity of Father and Son is ontological (i.e. that separate persons if fact constitute one being).

Would you like to try again and avoid gobbledygook like "ontological" and contradictions like two "persons in fact constitute one being"

You are talking to a normal intelligent rational human being who won't be fooled by dissembling. What on earth do you mean by that? If there are two persons and you worship both of them then you are a polytheist.

Warren Wilson

I prefer the Greek Orthodox doctrine of Christ Pantokrator,represented in icons as all three simultaneously. Still gibberish though and the reason that the orthodox side split from Rome in the 13th century.

Village Idiot

Warren Wilson:

"Still gibberish though and the reason that the orthodox side split from Rome in the 13th century."

And for those who don't gibber in exactly the same way as the ruling elite:

TTWSYF

The question posed to me from the my JW brother went like this 'Hear O Israel, the Lord your God is one God' How can there be a trinity with such overwhelming contradiction? I had to admit that I had no answer for that question. It was only years later did I research after having a religious experience related to a relative who visited Medjugorje.

Answer- In the Hebrew of the Old Testament there are 2 words for ONE. מישהו {אחד{ These words [to the best of my recollection] are pronounced with english letters as YAchid and EchAd. One means a singular one and the other means a plural one. IE-Man and woman came together to become ONE[plural] flesh, Day and night became ONE [plural] day and the Lord God is ONE[plural] God. So without indicating a trinity, the Jewish God of the old testament is unequivocally described as a compound God.

The Father raised Jesus from the dead [Gal 1;1 & Thess 1;10]

Jesus raised himself from the dead [John 10;17&18]

The Holy Ghost raised Jesus from the dead {Rom 8;11}

The Father dwells in believers [1 COR 3;16&17]

The Holy Ghost dwells in believers [1 Cor 2;12 and John 14;16&17]

Jesus dwells in believers [John 14;18]

Searching hearts and minds? Father [JERE 17;10] Jesus [REV 2;23] Holy Ghost [2 Cor 2;10]

my two cents...

InChristAlone

This is how I have explained the Trinity to those without a background in Christianity. Imagine that the words coming out of my mouth were visible to you. You could experience them with your senses as separate than me, but they are my words, and no one else's...not even their own. They can only say what I want them to say, they can only do what I want them to do because they are my words. In this respect, I am greater than my words because they are subject to me. On a similar note, my actions can be perceived the same way, except my actions are subject to both me and my words. They are perceived separate from each other, however they are infinitely linked since they are me and only me.

We both know there is nothing "of this world" that truly describes the God of the Bible. Therefore no description would be completely accurate. We still have a lot to learn in that regard. In my opinion, it is okay to not fully comprehend something and yet still have faith that it is true. Would you not agree on that basic tenet, Cofty?

TTWSYF

Or, how about this? God is so awesome and by the power of his word do things exist and are sustained, He is so awesome that when he speaks, his words are alive, His words have HIS spirit, his words are alive and deserve the same honor as HE HIMSELF deserves.......it is a mystery

what is the ontlogical trinity

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