what is the ontlogical trinity

by piledriver 120 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  bohm

  It's a bit like this.

  Imagine something which is spherical. Now imagine it is also shaped like a cube.

  So it is cubic and spherical at the same time. This appears impossible since these have different geometrical properties but you got to imagine this thing is both spherical and cubic at the same time because I say so.

  Also it is not changing between spherical or cubic and it is not like it is a sphere painted to look like a cube or something like that; no cheating.

  Now you have the best minds spend 1000 years hammering out the properties of this thing. The only thing you are not allowed to do is ask why one should suppose it exists or why it can't just be a sphere or a cube or a sphere next to a cube, otherwise you will be burned at the stake.

  The end-result will be a bit like the trinity.
• 

  cofty

  I'm trusting Cofty that you are aware that the trinity doctrine doesn't teach that the Father and the Son are the same person? And you are familiar with gobbledygook terms like modalism and Sabellianism? - pubsinger

  I understand the theology very well. I could write an essay on the greek terms, the historical debates and the heresies. I was a part-time evangelical preacher.

  It's all smoke and mirrors to hide polytheism.

  Attempting to grasp fully the nature of an eternal being,,,

  I'm not asking for that.

  I am asking for a simple explanation from a believer.
• 

  TTWSYF

  Cofty, we all want a simple explanation of a mystery. A mystery is a mystery.

  One thing is for sure. IF you believe the bible is the true word of God, then you must believe that God has revealed himself as a trinity as the bible says very specifically that the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Ghost is God.
• 

  Pubsinger

  In that case you are right. The trinity is an attempt to reconcile the two contradictory statements that there is one God with the statements that say the Father is God, Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God.

  The only way that that could be true, is if the nature of God or the stuff that God is made up of, allows for an entity where 3 distinct beings make up God. Without making the claim that they are all the same person.

  Could such a being exist. Well it would have to avoid scripture being contradictory.

  I wasn't being rude earlier 😊
• 

  cofty

  Cofty, we all want a simple explanation of a mystery. A mystery is a mystery. - TTWSYF

  Who says it's a mystery.

  If i give evidence in court and totally contradict myself will the judge be impressed by "a mystery is a mystery"?

  There is no mystery.

  Christians found themselves worshipping and adoring Jesus. We see the evolution of that as we follow the NT from Paul to John via Mark and Matthew.

  This raised the dilemma of how ot avoid polytheism. After decades of esoteric debate they came up with "it's divine mystery".

  It's no different from JWs making up the overlapping generations to cover their embarrassment.
• 

  cofty

  The only way that that could be true, is if the nature of God or the stuff that God is made up of, allows for an entity where 3 distinct beings make up God. .

  That is a direct contradiction and you know it is.

  You claim three distinct beings make up one god.

  Is god a committee made up of a panel of 3? Would that make Jesus 1/3 of a god?
  Without making the claim that they are all the same person

  So three persons as well? Or is three beings but one person or three person as well as three beings but one god when you put them all together?

  What do you mean by the words being and person?
  
  
• 

  Pubsinger

  As I understand it, according to the trinity doctrine, there are 3 persons but only one God. Yes it is a contradiction.

  Why the aggressive tone?
• 

  Pubsinger

  As you understand the doctrine due to you being an evangelical preacher, how did you reconcile the passages referring to Christ's deity with passages saying there was one God?
• 

  cofty

  there are 3 persons but only one God. Yes it is a contradiction

  So why were you pretending that it could be resolved by trying to make a distinction between person and being?

  how did you reconcile the passages referring to Christ's deity with passages saying there was one God?

  I went along with the standard christian obfuscation. It's an example of group-think
• 

  Pubsinger

  Frankly I don't like your snotty tone. I wasn't pretending anything. First comment I made was that this was bizarre. And I meant you. I didn't know what angle you were coming from. I do now.

  Yes of course it is a contradiction. There is nothing that we are aware of in our world that fits this description. That is why I said the trinity was a concept.