by Mindchild 101 Replies latest jw friends
An important side note: Being a doormat is no guarantee of keeping a man. Both husbands left ME. Giving them sex on demand does not mean they will love and honor you. Or stay with you.Beryl: YOU totally missed Thunder and Xena's point.
Sheila, sweetie, I must have. I'm an idiot. I will have to read them again. This is not a subject on which I am very dispassionate. Those two men put me through hell.
Beryl: I tend to look at issues from what I am experiencing NOW if I were to go by my dysfuntional relationship before Thunder I could possible be a real man hater. I am sorry that they were so horrible they still haunt you
Ok I finally cam e in here and read this
Wives have a "loving obligation" to have sex whenever they are asked for it - even if they are not in the mood, says American author Dr Laura Schlessinger.
This advice might be good in a loving respectful relationship. But when a professional gives out general statements like this, the very worst of society will use it to meet their selfish needs.
My ex demanded sex and used the Bible to get me to submit. This included times when I was sick, times when I was in a cervical coolar and on meds for a pinched nerve in my neck, times when I was pregnant with a high-risk pregnancy and under drs orders of no sex, times when I was just tired, or not interested. His needs came before mine and most of the time it was easier to give in than to deal with his pouting, arguing, shoving a Bible under my nose, and telling me he had a right.
What concerns me about "Dr." Laura's advice is that men like my ex will use this to sexually abuse their wives. And make no mistake there is nothing loving or respectful about forcing a wife to have sex on demand to meet your needs over hers.
Stillajwexelder, I don't want to stir the pot and hijack this thread, but there seems to be an inconsistency in the following statement by you:
think there are three books in this series by Jean Sasoon - one was called Daughters of Arabia -- forgotten the first ones title but all three are well worth a read and all three books confirm----- in Saudi Arabia: There the men do have sex on demand; and they can even have their wives executed among other atrocities: Saddam and his sons also in Iraq had sex on demand with any woman they wanted -- that is why we went to war and why it was worth going to war
Saudi Arabia is very religious. Hussein's regime wasn't religious--he and his family's abuses were because of their power. In fact, according to the LA Times and others, women as a whole had it better in Iraq than many of the Middle East countries--they were educated and even became professionals, they didn't wear the burkas, etc. Even the health care system was better than many of the surrounding nations, despite the sanctions put on them by the UN during the 90s.
Moreover, something like 85% of the hijackers on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia. And their whole nation abuses women as a matter of law.
Thanks for the followup on the books and i do feel like reading the others.
Cheers!
Pat
sheila
It was mean of him, and not the type of thing I would do myself.
I didn't say I agreed with him (see above). I think his behaviour is as despicable as hers is, but neither will I judge his motives. You were puzzled, I offered a possible explanation.
patio
first book is called "Princess: Life Behind the Veil in Saudi Arabia" (1992, so it's recent history)
Second book is about her daughter's escape (she is a lesbian), third, well, I will say no more.
Amazing reads, and very telling about how the country treats its women, since she is a member of the Royal Family. Imagine how the poor are treated!!
What happened to her two cousins in the first book was rather shocking. Imagine, being drowned in the pool by yr father in front of all family/servants as an example because you had done 'heavy petting'. And the other girl, well I won't say too much to give away the whole book.
Similar things are happening here, though not 'state-sanctioned'. Is killing the soul less important than the physical body? I wonder sometimes how civilized we really are.
Similar things are happening here, though not 'state-sanctioned'. Is killing the soul less important than the physical body? I wonder sometimes how civilized we really are.
What exactly are you talking about?
Talesin, I've read those books and they are horrific. When I read them I was shaken to the core! Perhaps it's the reading of books such as those that makes me react to viscerally to people like Dr. Laura. She appalls me!
~Aztec
Six
I will try to explain my position on this. I don't expect you to agree with it, but maybe you can see my POV.
As LadyLee said on another thread "about 30% of girls are sexually abused".
SA is called, by many, 'soul murder'.
We seem to think, in our society, that girls can 'overcome' being raped and molested, and indeed, some do a good job at recovery.
However, a lot of women end up leading a life of spiritual and emotional emptiness because of the things that have happened to them as children.
I realize that my viewpoint is radical in the opinion of many folk, but I feel that 'soul murder' is just as bad, if not worse, than actual murder.
So, although I am just as horrified as anyone by what happens to women in Saudi Arabia and other parts of the world, I feel that we do things to women here that are just as horrendous.
How hard is it to have nightmares, panic attacks, flashbacks every nite? Many wish they WERE dead! Speaking from personal experience, I can say that people's denial of my own experiences has been just as bad as if they had killed me. That is what I meant by that statement.
Hoping you understand ... you don't have to agree.
Also, just wanted to say, I don't wish to make this a 'womens' issue - many men go through the same mental and spiritual torture from their abuse, we just happen to be talking about wommin in this thread.
thanks for listening, six
respectfully,
tal
Well, tal, here's my POV, worth exactly what you're paying ;) Please take it in in the same spirit that you wished for.
Many of us have terrible things happen to us as children. (As did ny mom.)
Some people seem to never recover from these things. Others, while still bearing scars, seem to reach places of happiness, success, love, and trust.
To talk about "soul murder" is to say that some people are incapable of recovery (since their souls are dead), and labels those people as somehow less than, as damaged goods... and who are we to say that one person is more capable than another? (Of course, some people are more capable than others, but who are we to judge?)
As children, we associate meanings with events. We do it to survive, physically and emotionally - we need to make the world make sense. But when we become adults, that is, when we become responsible for our actions, we get to re-evaluate those decisions we made as children (which often don't make sense to us now), and work with what we want the events to mean now.
As an example, it is not uncommon for a sexually abused child to develop borderline personality disorder, due to the significant invalidiation that sexual abuse represents. However, the entire treatment regimen for BPD involves the presumption that people are capable of learning new reactions and cognitively changing their situation. To tell that person that their soul has been murdered is to play at being God - we don't get to make that determination!
Experience is not what happens to us - it's what we do with what happens to us. Aldous Huxley.
On another note, from what I hear about most husbands, wives don't want those guys responsible for their orgasms anyway.
This whole conversation about sex on demand for wives reminds me of a line from a Spider Robinson book. The character Mary is looking to marry an alien robot (no , seriously). Someone says "But you don't even know if you're sexually compatible!" Mary replies, "I can see fingers and a tongue from here - anything else is gravy."
