Truth, Justice, and the American Way (page 3)

logansrun

still,

This is utter nonsense. That's like asking in the first century AD "Who should the Roman Empire emulate? Who builds better roads? Who is more powerful?"

Come on.

B.

stillajwexelder

No it is not --- which country do you want the US to emulate -- please name names -- who gets a higher score than F?

Badger

Woah, Simon...Yeah, the Yanks have laid a few eggs, but we've done our fair share of help...

...Clinton was a part of the Oslo Accords

...Reagan (Tho I hate him) did finish off the cold war.

...Marshall Plan!

Panama, Vietnam and not backing the League of Nations were us at our worst...but Hitler/Stalin/Mao would likely have been three times the imperial bully that any U.S. President from McKinley to Bush the Younger.

But I'm sure you were using that famous Brit hyperbole.

D8TA

Who have we sanctioned without a valid reason solely to gain a chokehold?
2. Specifically, in your life time...who has been exploited by the US and how???
If the United States receives an "F" in world relations...who has a better score...and what is your criterion for that judgment?

Number one, this is not an issue of perfectionism.

This is an issue of people who have always cried and wine about people here who expressed their discontent with the U.S. and it?s policy. This is for people who deliberately feign ignorance.

Now, I am going to provide a link to George Washington University. I am NOT your professor; therefore I am NOT going to create links and long-winded production of evidence in which any average Joe can find by searching. The history of the U.S. is replete with exploitation and initiating (or supporting by economic or military force thru the U.N.) sanctions for self-serving purposes, be they simple or grand. A simple search for a day in one?s life who is genuinely interested in their countries policy, can actually be beneficial for a lifetime.

Now this link (should you have the motivation) will provide you with FACTS backed up by U.S. Government documents. You people always begin your name tagging with ?you?re a liberal ? using a liberal resource? blah de blah blah argument. Well Sonny Jim, these subjects are backed by reports by the U.S. agencies who were either involved or who investigated.

AFTER this link, I wish to ask that when people here are asked for proof about U.S. Global Relations and/or Exploitation by measure of economic and military action (including actions from certain "intelligence" agencies), that this thread can be kindly pointed out.

This (long list) is but a BRIEF example of U.S. atrocities.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/

Further information regarding U.S. Global Relations and Exploitation can also be found here: http://nsarchive.chadwyck.com/

Now I will kindly ask DakotaRed and people of the like: To stop this ?Where is the documented proof? argument when he himself when asked for evidence or to counter arguments with evidence has only responded with,? The proof is in the pudding?. I think the evidence provided by the subjects of the first link will make it "black & white" for you, since most of it is backed up documented evidence BY your own Government.

You have your proof now, be big boys and girls, and do YOUR own research.

Now on to:

I want you to point out to me one single country that does it better!

My statement that I made when initiating this thread was to the hardcore whiners who cry foul when people, again, type or discontent about the U.S. and its policies. In truth neither the U.S. nor any country on this planet does ?better??and no, neither the U.S. nor any country is ?better?. What my point is, which you have proven, is that if you are going to do the ?America is Greatest ? U.S. # 1? defense?be prepared to take responsibility for what you back up.

Again, is it: France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Brazil, Indonesia, Nigeria, be whatever country it is?that always needs to be landing troops in other peoples backyards? Is it the U.S. responsibility to police the world? Why is it the U.S. that is always hammering the U.N. to support them in there military conquests? It seems to me the U.S. has been the most pro-active war country in last half century. Be direct involvement (in which averages 1 every 10 years), or aiding and assisting with military, intelligence, and economic support of warring countries (arms deals, covert/black-ops, and/or corporate supported help).

Now as ?who does better in Global relations??

Brazil, New Zealand, Australia, Indonesia,. ?Should the list continue?

When the U.S. pissess in other peoples pools, and people end up dying or getting hurt because of their involvement?I think this is valid enough for people to criticize the U.S.

It?s because nobody criticizes Brazil (or such other countries), because such other countries tend to stay out of everybody else?s business. Or, because the U.S. has monopolized the ?pissing in other people?s pool? game.

People don?t go thru great trouble to fly airplanes into buildings, just for the sake of pure hate and grievance against the U.S. And don?t take this statement as I condoning such and action. These people are people who have been affected and are retaliating against U.S. policy that has robbed them of homes and families. These are people who are fighting back against policies that kill their families back home. This goes along with the, ?Don?t punch somebody in the nose and not expect retaliation? argument.

...and what is your criterion for that judgment?

Using a euphemism that relates to Elementary Grade school report cards as to U.S. vs. others in Global Relations is my ?criteria?. In other words, it?s just driving my point home.

Now, as to me personally, I know I could never change the world on a grand scale. A solution I have sought is to help and aid those in the developing countries of Latin America. Be it reform in local government, or aiding those who have no means of recieving basic necessities. Yes, people from the U.S. help as do many Asian and European countries.

I always see people of the conservative nature on this board ask for evidence: I have provided.

I always see people here ask for solutions: I have mine.

Now what is YOUR peoples evidence to counter what I've provided, and what are YOU doing for a solution to current corrupted U.S. policies. As in RIGHT NOW. Not years ago, or yesterday. The pursuit for change is a never-ending challenge...as it is for Liberty, Justice, and the Pursuit of Happiness for ALL (that's inclusive for the entire globe, just not Americans).

As to putting my feet to the fire? You guys haven?t. Why is it I am prepared to back my arguments up with facts, links, and evidence?and when I ask for you to counter such with equal methods?you don?t? Do you actually research what I type? Or do you just go on some "common sense" argument and hope that there's something to back you up and disprove what I say here?

In other threads I see people questioning the policies of the U.S. and being labled as "Left wing extremists" and the like. I'm not on left, I'm just not ignorant. Other replies to peoples discontent with U.S. policy is met with people who just flat out whine and grumble because somebody decided to type: I'm not happy with the U.S. at the moment for reason X. Then these people who nothing better to do but stop their Color Me Elmo project with Crayoal Crayons make one or two sentences pandering for censorship.

I guess there is something that most Americans forgot, and that is choice. You don't want to come into current events, don't click on it. If you don't want to see people questioning (or in your perception-bashing) the policies and action of the U.S. don't enter the threads and read them. If you do decide on the choice to enter such topics, be prepared to argue and debate against the subject.

This what I meant by "...and frankly, you are making yourself look like an idiot". Comon sense argument can go a short way, but there isn't a whole lot of that "Good ol' American Common Sense" in the realm of U.S. policies. You can't quip in an argument with statements like: "Well, tell that to the 3,000 dead people that died on Sept. 11th."....or "It's really about going after the big bad man with mustache and not oil", and then run away without providing something to back up what you say the U.S. is doing is for the betterment of some other countries system.

So far, I see people here provide solid evidence that U.S. interests are not accurate as to what CNN/MSNBC/FoxNews (all being the free public relations dept. for the U.S. war machine right now) are reporting. Do people in the U.S. even check other news sources (BBC anyone?) to make a well rounded opinion about something? Or are you content being fed propaganda by U.S. media firms (who have interests of their own) between your NFL and NBA games?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: There are more enemies in Washington D.C. than there are evil men with turbans and/or dictators with SuperCut haircuts, starving armies, and bad mustaches who " Supposedly had WoMD" . The enemies in Wash. D.C. are tearing your country apart, and untill you clean your own house dear American's....quit coming into other peoples houses and pissing on their carpets and not expect the residents to get angry...huh? Should you do and support this, then expect that there are people who are going to rock the boat, and have every right to do so.

logansrun

So, let's say that ALL the governments on the planet would get an "F" in terms of their politics. Does that mean it's okay for one of them to say, "we are no better than anyone else" and continue their miserable failure rate?

At one time most all governments have tolerated slavery in one form or another. Does that make it right?

And -- Who says the US must "emulate" anyone? Why not just do the right thing in the first place?

Nevertheless, I think Switzerland and most of the Nordic countries do a better job at world affairs. Throw in post-war Japan as well. There are others as well.

Bradley

Aztec

Believe me, there is a strong instinct in almost all of the United States' peoples to just close down our borders and impose ridiculous tariffs on foreign goods and just tend to our own affairs.

No there isn't. I certainly wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life drinking American beer. Would you? I certainly think we should spend more time tending to our domestic issues though. As I was walking through downtown Detroit today I noticed some of the neighborhoods could've been airlifted here from a warzone.

I support the military efforts in Iraq because I believe that the spread of democracy is our best bulwark against terrorism, and military intervention was the most painless (not completely painless, far from it, but the best available) way to get rid of the major obstacle to democracy, ie. Saddam Hussein and the Baath Party.

I still don't understand how Saddam Hussein and the Baath party were standing in the way of our democracy. Not every country is culturally responsive to a democratic government either. I'm going to get off this topic because I don't think that is what this thread is all about. Sorry.

Czar, I think you've moderated yourself quite a bit. (The Czarina's influence?) I like it!

I'm not even going to get into it with Yeru because he and I have been getting along and I think we've agreed to disagree. I like him anyway.

~Aztec

logansrun

Badger,

...Reagan (Tho I hate him) did finish off the cold war.

That is HIGHLY debateable. Many feel the USSR would have collapsed on their own without the US spending a gazillion dollars on nuclear bombs. And now, of course, we (and they) have a ton of WMD. How pleasant!

Bradley

Truth, Justice, and the American Way

logansrun

stillajwexelder

Badger

D8TA

logansrun

Aztec

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Phantom Stranger

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Big Tex

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