Shunning: The Watchtower's Self-Inflicted Wound

by slimboyfat 101 Replies latest members campaign

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  TD

  Well that's another teaching that needs reformed. Russell taught that most (if not all) humans would be saved. He was nearly a universalist. That's what we need to get back to.

  It was (of all things) the Great Crowd doctrine that made their salvific model exclusivistic. Prior to that, they were perfectly okay with the idea that "good people" in other faiths would be saved.

  Fast forward the clock nearly 83 years and the Great Crowd doctrine is in serious, serious trouble. Who knows? Maybe Russell's more benign view would be a way out of the theological cul-de-sac they've walked into
  
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  sparrowdown

  The crazy thing is if all JWs just stopped shunning what could WT do about it? Not a damn thing.

  The same goes for any of their stupid "rules."

  What could WT do but jump up and down like Donald duck for a while but if people just ignored any "counsel" and said "talk to the finger I'll talk to whoever I choose" WT couldn't do anything but go along with it.
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  cofty

  Well that's another teaching that needs reformed. Russell taught that most (if not all) humans would be saved. He was nearly a universalist. That's what we need to get back to.

  Don't you think that should be at the top of any list of reforms? Any religion that divides the world into those that are worthy of eternal bliss and those who deserve annihilation is evil at its very core. No further discussion of the merits of that religion is necessary.

  You are correct that Russell taught that true christians were to be found in every church. If the GB had any interest in reform then this would be a possible route. All the signs are that they are determined to move in the opposite direction.
  

  Edited to add - I just noticed TD made the same point above...
  
  
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  Hanged Man

  Imagine the scenario if they ever got rid of shunning...
  

  "Hi sister Smith.....it's a pity your apostate father (who you haven't spoken to for 20 years) died a couple of months back.......now that the society have had some new light on shunning......"

  Cofty is right....the whole thing is beyond reform.......fuck the governing body and their strutting about in mock majesty.....the clock is ticking ya fucks.
  
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  ttdtt

  If they did not Disfellowship (shun) I dont think people would leave.

  They would, in fact, be more like other religions and do what they want and just go to the meetings and do whatever they wanted to do.
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  slimboyfat

  Cofty quite apart from how likely it is, would you actually be pleased if JWs reformed and became a welcoming, open religious group?

  I think it’s more likely now than ever, because it’s especially during time of crisis that these things become possible.

  Yes it would mean JWs becoming more like any other denomination and dropping their craziest teachings and policies. Those who say it can’t happen because JWs are fundamentalist miss the point. Accepting evolution and so on is part of the transition. It’s like pointing to a child and saying it can never be a driver. Well it can’t be a driver as long as it’s a child. But it won’t be a child forever. Children become adults, and sects become denominations. That’s how it goes. The question is when and how JWs will make the transition.
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  Hanged Man

  Or hopefully the "child" dies a horrible death.
  
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  stan livedeath

  "Any religion that divides the world into those that are worthy of eternal bliss and those who deserve annihilation is evil at its very core. No further discussion of the merits of that religion is necessary."

  
  

  exactly right. this should be the main point to raise whenever we have dubs at the door or at a cart. challenge them about it. watch them try to wriggle out of it.
  
  
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  cofty

  Cofty quite apart from how likely it is, would you actually be pleased if JWs reformed and became a welcoming, open religious group? - SBF

  The key thing is individual freedom of thoughts and actions.
  

  If you could be a JW in good standing while...

  • openly believing in and promoting evolution
  • acknowleging the scientific, moral and historical failings of the bible
  • rejecting the apocalyptic and eschatological doctrines
  • donating and receiving blood transfusions
  • promoting the value of higher education and careers
  • mixing socially with people of all faiths and none
  • totally rejecting any hint of shuning or ostracism of any member or former member who acts differently
  • criticising the words and actions of authority figures within the organisation
  • participating fully in politics and the military
  • outspokenly condemning the culture of minimising child abuse including corporeal punishment

  I would view that as a good start.

  But in what way would it still be a distinct organisation?
• 

  Finkelstein

  I agree with Slim , there is a whole lot more psychologically implanted doctrinal wise into JW's minds regarding their loyalty to the organization, separate from shunning altogether.

  Some would even quietly not agree with doing away with it. after all its in scripture to separate oneself from the evil doers.