The absolute stupidity of Christianity (page 8)

gumby

there are a growing number of Christians who believe that everyone will eventually be saved by Jesus at some point, and not be condemned to hell for all eternity. They have arguements based off of the scriptures to support their beliefs as well

Like I said.....Jesus didn't teach that.

That's the problem with the bible, and is also proof it is not consistant. Were the bible more clear on these matters , there would not be the amount of interpretations we have, with so many different beliefs of doctrine within christianity.

Jesus SAID MANY were on the road to destuction. He SAID there was a second death. He SAID there was a "place" for those of eternal torments of whatever type, he SAID the road to life was narrow, and the one to death was broad and wide. He SAID he would put goats on his left and they would BECOME like chaff. He SAID there would be blood up to the bridle of his war horse. He SAID many would try to get in and could not and would "gnash ther teeth".

How many instances of jesus own words does a universalist need to convince them that those who reject christ will not be happy campers for all eternity?

Gumby

JamesThomas

Why do we have to keep believing that God is so small that we have to accept some person or entity outside of us as our Savior? Because of the diverse nature of people, this limited idea of God, will always be exclusionary to some degree. Exclusion is not true love. Many people sense this and are turned off by it. The finite mind can not understand the Infinity of our Source (God), so it constructs finite gods it can embrace and understand. We focus on these and thus lose sight of what is boundlessly available and which denies no one. Throughout the ages Mysticism and now Quantum Physics imply that fragmentation and separation are but figments of the mind. The universe is one. Perhaps the idea that I end someplace and God begins someplace else, is untrue. The fundamental Christian idea of God, strongly reinforces and supports a god which is another piece, a thing within the universe. Perhaps, the universe is within God. Perhaps the only limits to God are in our minds and the religious dogmas it creates. Perhaps Jesus was right when he said "the Kingdom is not Lo here or there (fragmented in time and space), but within." Within the Consciousness which looks out these eyes even now. If there is a truly loving God, how could it be any other way? God would be discovered to be closer than close and more intimate than anything ever experienced before. j

mouthy

I guess that is why many Christians do not consider me Christian.. You see I dont believe ALL scripture- ( Sorry Christians)I dont read it everyday>..USED TOO>.. I DO believe the Teaching that Jesus came to show us was LOVE...I do believe he told us the way to live. IN MY OPINION( NOT THE TEACHING OF MOST) Not to judge!!,not to steal, to forgive, if someone is hungry or cold or in hospital we are obliged to help...But I DONT BELIEVE I have to go to CHurch-or give a tithe,or express opinions on others life styles.I may not agree with drunks, drugs addiction,I do not KNOW who will be saved or not--- I only know I have never see anyones heart ( Only St Joseph's which was under glass at the Montreal Oratory before it was stolen)Since we are told that God -(CREATOR) whom I learned mostly about from looking at HIS creation.Trees ,birds, bees, flowers, sky I could go on & on-- Is the ONLY ONE I believe to see hearts.( O.K. wise guys !Dr also but they dont know if they are good or bad spiritually) Why waste our time & energy fighting about who is in & who "aint" ..I only Know I believe Jesus Created all.... Col 1:16... Yep! I pick & choose what I believe dont I!!! But even when I would get letters from my earthly Father -I didnt accept everything..He told me I shouldnt be doing this or that>>>>I didnt listen to all...That is probably why I ended up in so much trouble...But since God created me.He oughta KNOW me. Wouldnt ya think????2 cents

gumby

I do not KNOW who will be saved or not--- .I only Know I believe Jesus Created all.... Col 1:16...

Do I dare argue or debate with our granny

This is the problem I do not understand mouthy. A person can believe in Jesus and his words, and yet say they do not know who will be saved or not. Jesus TAUGHT who would be saved. He didn't name individuals, but he DID lay out the requirements as I stated in my previous post. His words can make you feel you are worthless if you won't except him.

Anyways.....I see no harm in your viewpoints....I just have a hard time seeing it the way others do.

Gumby

logansrun

Oh for Chrissakes, would this thread which I have started please die?

B.

mouthy

No Logan it wont-It has been going on for thousands of years
And my darling Gumby!!! you & Millions of others have a hard time understanding too.I just dont bother to try!!!!I guess I am stupid!!! But its too late to worry about it now

Double Edge

Oh for Chrissakes, would this thread which I have started please die?

Logansrun: You've created a MONSTER....

Enishi: thanks for the link. Very interesting. Here's a snippit from the website that explains that early Christians believed in universal salvation:

"An honest look at history shows that the majority of the early church believed that all would eventually be saved. The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge by Schaff-Herzog says in volume 12, page 96, ?In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist; one (Ephesus) accepted conditional mortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked.? A most crucial and important in point in church history: when Emperor Constantine militarized and politicalized the church, the teaching of Hell became a more powerful weapon of control than a loving God who loved all mankind. At that point the teaching of universal salvation began to be stamped out through severe persecution. The result? The church created what we now call ?The Dark Ages.?

Before the Dark Ages, the church was vibrant with the teaching of God?s love for all mankind. The second major church council composed of hundreds of bishops from the entire church met in Constantinople in 381 AD and elected Gregory of Nazianzus, an avowed Universalist, as president proving clearly that the great majority of the church leadership at the end of the fourth century believed in universal salvation. Yet today universal salvation is considered a heresy in most denominations. The early church better versed in the original languages of the Scriptures and closer to the apostles? teachings thought otherwise. Who do you think is more likely to have the truth? The early Church or the thousands of divisions of Christianity formed by men ?drawing disciples after themselves? centuries later? (Acts 20:30)

metatron

You are simply repeating a lot of politically correct superficialites that dominate

popular thinking these days. Without Christianity, you wouldn't have a keyboard

to debate with - or much else , for that matter.

What did the Muslims do with their algebra ( al jabr)? Little or nothing, seduced as

they ARE by calcified visions of 14th century glory. What did the Greeks do with

their philosophy? Pass into history while Christendom preserved their thinking.

And the Chinese - who became 'stuck in time' after Confucious came along?

Who couldn't figure out how to make cannons to bring down centralized castle

rulership - despite the militarism tradition of Sun Tzu, Tamerlane, Attila the Hun , Genghis

Khan or countless warlords?

And Renaissance figures? Like Newton - who sought to understand the glory of

a Christian God's creation - or others who reasoned against the "divine right

of kings" based on a Christian background of equality before God?

There are Jewish physicists who believe that the tradition of Talmudic study

led directly , as a habit of Jewish culture, to the development of modern physics.

Hello, Einstein, Oppenheimer, Teller, Feynman, and Rabi !!

Take one primitive planet filled with roaming barbarians

Inject a message of PERSONAL SALVATION that infers the VALUE

OF THE INDIVIDUAL.

Wait centuries for this idea to grow and develop - and CREATE human rights, civil rights,

abolish slavery, and generate democracy. Don't make the mistake of thinking small

here - as if the Bible explicitly predicted each of these developments in writing.

Ideas take on a life of their own - and move cultures thereby.

We humans are led by myths, by dreams, by ephemeral visions.

If technology ever develops the equivalent of a New Jerusalem on this earth,

I will be grateful for the sacrifices of all who went before me, whose religious dreams

gave us the exaulted goal, in the first place. Any of you Brits recall the words

of "Jerusalem" built on "England's green and pleasant land"?

metatron

Double Edge

Well said, Metatron, WELL SAID.

Oxnard Hamster

Oh for Chrissakes, would this thread which I have started please die?

Well, you did bring up a controversial subject. You opened up with several good points, about how Christians are judgemental, are taught to be submissive, etc. etc. I agree that there is too much red tape and people miss the whole point of the teachings of the Bible.

However, later you mention something about having no respect for those who don't fall into the strict organized doctrines of Christianity. I don't think you're being fair to Christians. On one hand, you are reprimanding them for having stupid doctrines, but on the other hand, you say you don't respect those that don't really pay any attention to those doctrines.

Besides, by having no respect for those individuals, aren't you yourself being judgemental, one of the same vices you pointed out in Christianity?

The absolute stupidity of Christianity

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