by Guest 77 100 Replies latest social current
Raised levels of mercury in our air can lead to various disorders that people without insurance cannot afford to deal with.
Being aware of things like this, and yet supporting GW Bush at the same time, must cause the same kind of cognitive dissonance that being a JW does.
I was wrong. It was an illigitimate war, won or lost.
Wait, what? Even from a humanitarian perspective?
I must admit, in all my debates in all the different arenas, you are the first humanitarian to object to the war, especially now that one of the bloodiest modern dictators is behind bars. Aren't the Iraqi people better off now that they are free to march and demonstrate and celebrate their religion freely? And soon they will be able to experience democracy, and all the fun we have debating about stuff .
I mean, how, from a humanitarian perspective, was the war illegitimate? Or have you lost your humanitarianism?
The mass starvations that the left was predicting didn't happen. The demonic sons of Saddam are dead, which certainly makes their national sports teams feel a little better.
I admit that there is a great deal of work to do - but look at the facts. When the US was forming, it took years to get the Constitution together. And 80 more years to get rid of slavery. And 40 more years to get women the vote. And 40 more years to outlaw discrimination. Iraq is getting all of this in less than a year! Months have gone by, and the process is gradually taking hold. I'm proud of the Iraqis. They have shown themselves to be intelligent, capable people who have every right to the freedom that we bought for them. They have shown that you can be muslim and still be democratic in your outlook, an important example in the Middle East. The various factions are already showing a considerable aptitude for politicking and schmoozing, which are valuable skills for a modern society to function. Opposites need to be able to lie through their teeth in order to reach agreements, and to look towards the next election for "revenge" rather than ordering an Islamic revolt.
The acid test will be when we reduce our presence - then we will see if democracy can truly take root in Iraq. And I'm betting that it will.
That's why I won't vote for anyone who I think will not see the job through. Dean will never get my vote. Clark at least won't screw our soldiers over, although I don't think he has anything to offer - he had one drum to beat and Saddam's capture kinda busted it.
CZAR
CZAR
Being aware of things like this, and yet supporting GW Bush at the same time, must cause the same kind of cognitive dissonance that being a JW does
However, reducing the tyranny level in the environment of the Middle East isn't a valid expenditure in your view? Schizoid party, anyone?
CZAR
Hillary is the only one that can threaten Bush
Seriously, I don't understand why anyone believes that Hillary can threaten Bush. Not only would a Hillary candidacy activate the far-right base in a way it hasn't been active for years; but what's worse, Hillary has always tended to alienate swing voters, who simply don't like her as a person.
And as much progress as has been made in the last 30 years, there are still a lot of people who simply wouldn't vote for a woman for President.
Personally, I chose Dean because of domestic issues, not his position on Iraq. And here are the facts about Iraq: It may be unfair to Bush, but people don't remember success for long. One of two things is going to happen: either things are going to go badly in Iraq, in which case the anti-war position might regain respect; or Iraq is going to stabilize, in which case people will turn back to domestic issues. Either way, Bush can't sit on his desert laurels.
Either way, Bush can't sit on his desert laurels
I concur. This is the time for a big domestic policy capped off with the capture of Osama...
CZAR
I mean, how, from a humanitarian perspective, was the war illegitimate?
Was there a humanitarian crisis in Iraq at that time -- one that could be fixed by say, invading their country and getting thousands of Iraqis killed in the process?
Czar,
You said,
Hell, I'd pull for Hillary over health insurance except gun control is my RED FLAG issue. I don't trust anyone that wants me unarmed.
you WANT the health insurance offered by Hillary...at the expense of increasing taxes beyond reckoning?
Lucid,
Was there a humanitarian crisis in Iraq at that time -- one that could be fixed by say, invading their country and getting thousands of Iraqis killed in the process?
I direct your attention to the mass graves.
How was this war illegitimate...congress authorized it.
Finally...remember, it took over three years to quell the violence in Germany after WW2.
Yeru, are you saying Saddam was executing mass amounts of civilians in the months leading up to our invasion? That itself would have the best reason to invade and unseat him, but I am not aware it was ever made.
The authorization by Congress was curiously complacent. The war may have been legal in the US, but it was not legal as far as the international community is concerned. They wanted to avoid war through the inspection process. When the administration figured out the UN wasn't going to opt for the attack-now option, it bypassed a vote and went ahead anyway.
Lucid
Do I personally have documentation of them trahing the White House. Um, no. Did I see pictures of it in Time and Newsweek??? Yes!
I wasn't asking for personal documentatin, copsec! I was asking for links. If it was in Time and Newsweek, it's gotta be on the 'net somewhere.
