Born Again? (page 5)

mouthy

anks, may I ask you, are all Christians 'born again'? Does that necessarily mean being filled with holy spirit and speaking in tongues, etc? The reason I am confused is that I've heard ( JT QUESTION) My answer to the above question is .. I do not believe all who call themselves Christian are born again... I do not believe you have to speak in tounges...( though scripture tells me not to forbid it) My own PERSONAL opinion on that Question is..... When you ask the LORD JESUS to COME into your heart ( soul) self) & be YOUR own personal Savior you are born again.... Scripture says "to test yourself is Jesus Christ IN YOU" If you feel HE isnt Invite him.....I dont believe that we need theology we need KNEEOLGY...I havent read all the threads beffor mine -but I will go back & read ..The reason why is when I copy what you said- I have to rush to reply- else I will forget who you were >>>>>LOL OLD AGE AGAIN DAH!!!!

mouthy

OOPs it was ItSupport that asked the question ....Oh sorry folks ....My "sometimers "is acting up...

archangel01

To Ros

Hello, If You read the words of Paul you will notice it's a putting ON immortality like new clothing not taking off humanity. God is a Tri-Unity Being and being in his image we also are a Tri-unity being... Spirit, Soul, Body. I like the wording in the Living Bible read 2Corinthians cha 5 vs 1-10. I love the wording in vs 3 "For we will not be spirits without bodies, but we will put on new heavenly bodies.

I hope this helps

ClassAvenger

Born again actually should be translated 'born from above", but its basically the same thing. Whatever you want to call it. The point is that when a person accepts Christ as their savior and place their trust in him, the Holy Spirit comes and indwells in him, and now he is born again. The old things have passed and he is a new creature. The Spirit will change him according to God's purpose and will use him to spread his Word. The Holy Spirit seals the person as one of God's sons and indwells in him forever. So, the answer for your question is yes, in order to be a Christian you have to be born again. True Christians are those who have faith, they automatically receive the Spirit of God. You do not have to be baptized to be born again. It is just a way of showing your obedience to God and that you will follow Him. Jesus said that in order to be born from above you have to be born from the water and from the Spirit. The water does not mean baptism, thats the Roman Catholic church interpretation of this passage and so they baptize all the children when they are born. To be born from water is to receive God's grace. The water symbolizes His grace for us, look at Ezekiel 36:25. It is a metaphorical sense of the word. God bless you.

There are actually some books that are given online at no cost, just enter your address and they are ordered to you. Maybe they might be of some help. Notice: they aren't booklets, but books. Around 350 pages long. You can order a max of two. Lol, im not trying to advertise here. Just saying, I recently ordered some. Enjoy.www.bjnewlife.org

LittleToe

I've enjoyed these last couple of posts.
Well put, guys.

ros

LittleToe:One of the ways I find that the Bible speaks to me in a more revealing way, at least seems so to me, is to avoid all terminology derived from church doctrines that are not contained in the Bible itself, and which imo carry a preconceived doctrinal notion. If one believes the Bible to be inspired, then they should also believe that God stated what is necessary for salvation without added definitions not contained therein. Having said that, I agree with you that Christianity is a "personal relationship" (term not in the Bible) rather than association with any organization or doctrinal beliefs. But I also think the term "born again", which IS a term by Jesus in the Scriptures, is referring to spirit resurrection, not confession of Christ as savior and on-going relationship with Him. The term is simply not used in that way.
The cross-doctrine from two terms that are in the Bible, "born again" and "saved" in the past-tense, is fundamentalist doctrine that I find no Scriptural basis for, and which leads some to judgmental belief.

=======================

archangel01: I understand quite well the "born-again" church doctrine (not withstanding individual variations), I just don't agree with that concept; that is, being in the past tense. I'll re-quote your scripture to support my point:

2Corinthians cha 5 vs 1-10. I love the wording in vs 3 "For we will not be spirits without bodies, but we will put on new heavenly bodies.

Notice: 1) That they "...will not be spirits without bodies, but we will..." is definitely future tense.
2) what they will put on (future tense, not past) is heavenly bodies (i.e., the kind they will have when resurrected that can enter the spirit realm wherein the kingdom of God is).

=======================

ClassAvenger: Again, you have stated the doctrine very well. However, I tend to disagree with the interpretation your doctrine applies in this:

The water does not mean baptism, thats the Roman Catholic church interpretation of this passage and so they baptize all the children when they are born. To be born from water is to receive God's grace. The water symbolizes His grace for us, look at Ezekiel 36:25. It is a metaphorical sense of the word.

My interpretations do not come from Roman Catholic (a denomination I have never personally experienced). I'll simply quote some scriptural texts that seem to not support the popular "born again" doctrine imo:

20 ??In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. (1Pet.3:20-22 NIV)
Romans 6:4
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
12having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

The "born again" doctrine goes hand-in-hand with the "have you been saved" doctrine. This use of "past tense" is what prompts the Baptist doctrine of "once saved always saved". Rarely in scripture is the term "saved" used in other than future tense (i.e., "will be saved", as opposed to "have been saved"). Example (just one of many many) is Jesus words in Matt.10:22 and 24:13: "He that endures to the end will be saved." Do a look-up on the term "saved" in the NT and you'll see what I mean. One example of "saved" in the present/passive tense ("are being saved") is Paul's words at 1Cor.1:18 and 2:15. An example of "saved" in the past tense is at Romans 8:24 where Paul says:

but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.--Romans 8:23-25 NIV

~Ros

ClassAvenger

So you believe that you need to be baptized to be saved?

mustang

I wish to mention THREE ITEMS here that are contributing to complications (with no attempt at explanation, just throwing more fuel on the fire ) :

1) Born Again: the Definition!!! (I have to plead AGNOSTIC on this one.)

2) The original question REALLY included the choice about To Be RE-Baptized or Not To Be RE-Baptized. (Plenty of discussion along this line is possible without resolving #1.)

3) JW’s have an extra added twist to all of this: EARTHLY HOPE vs. HEAVENLY HOPE. (If you look closely about "entering the kingdom of Heaven", you will find JW’s THAT DON’T EXPECT TO DO THIS LITERALLY. Some who have never been JW’s are bound to be mystified on this one.)

I’m sure this can’t help, but I will say it anyway: HOPE THIS HELPS!!!

BTW, the tongue-in-cheek-ism is my way of saying "enjoying the discussion".

Mustang

LittleToe

Ros:
Personal relationship:
(Jesus words - "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." - John 17:3 KJV)

"Know" (ginosko) means more than just "Accurate Knowledge", as the JW's portray. It has a personal quality.

Salvation gained while physically alive:
There are examples of this in the Old Testament, too, such as the Psalms and the prophets (e.g. Isaiah and Jeremiah).

It's not just a "Fundamentalist" or "Born Again Denomination" teaching, it's pretty much mainstream, especially in Calvinist circles.
IMHO, an assurance of salvation leads one to act out of love instead of fear. It seems far more in line with the concept of a God of love, rather than one who expects us to ever live up to something we can't live up to.

Thanks for your perspective, though. I find it fascinating to see how others interpret scripture

mouthy

Little Toe You always tell it like I see it..... Keep on keeping on.

Born Again?

Share this