God does exist... (page 9)

rem

LT,

>>To be honest I find the worldview you propose more abhorrent, in view of the subject matter of child abuse. "It just happens"???

Like I said, maybe theists see the world fundamentally different that non-theists. I personally find the worldview of a benevolent god allowing child abuse to happen abhorrent and utterly illogical.

Sometimes reality bites. If you are looking for something more than what exists, you will be disappointed. I believe that looking for the world to conform to human standards is, by definition, anthropocentric and limits our understanding of the universe.

Regarding "evil" things, such as child abuse, a non-theist will look at the situation and say, perhaps there is a way we can fix this. The theist seems to look at the same situation and say, this world is crap - only god can fix this!

rem

frankiespeakin

Rem good point:

Regarding "evil" things, such as child abuse, a non-theist will look at the situation and say, perhaps there is a way we can fix this. The theist seems to look at the same situation and say, this world is crap - only god can fix this!
rem

I think the whole God idea a important myth about man's increased consiousness, that is changing to more and higher levels of awareness, as man keeps on evolving, though natural selection.

Phantom Stranger

frankie, natural selection is done with you once you live long enough for your kids to survive without you... (pretty young) so n.s. is not the means of any sort of evolution you're referring to.

bebu

Regarding "evil" things, such as child abuse, a non-theist will look at the situation and say, perhaps there is a way we can fix this. The theist seems to look at the same situation and say, this world is crap - only god can fix this!

I completely disagree with this small point--in its implication that theists have done nothing, while atheists have done everything to fight "evil".

Humanitarian charitable work has been initiated and maintained largely by theists. Though one should expect hopelessness and inaction from those seeing "god-sized" problems, it has, actually, been the reverse. Certainly atheists have done many charitable things, but there really is no comparison, if that is what you wish to do.

bebu

rem

Bebu,

You completely missed the point of the post. I never implied any such thing. The point was that theists seem to have a more negative outlook on life, while atheists have a more positive, or at least neutral outlook. We don't need a god to fix the world because we don't view it as bad.

The problem of evil only comes into play with certain theistic models.

rem

frankiespeakin

Phantom,

I think you have concepts about evolution that inacurate just like I do. Read about "Gaia" and Pere T.

bebu

this world is crap - only god can fix this!

SORRY, Rem, for misunderstanding you! Also, the term world (what exactly did you mean by "world"?--the physical globe, or only the population, or something else?) had me act reflexively. ...Even so...

I cannot speak for all theists, and not all Christians either. But I do not see the world (defined now as both this physical world and the people living in it) as "crap". No one I have known well personally (from church) does either. The world is not hated as crap for what it has become, but mourned, I think, for what it has lost.

We don't need a god to fix the world because we don't view it as bad

If a person believes that his child is sick, does that make him pessimistic for thinking 'something is wrong'? I don't think so. If a person is certain his child is healthy and doesn't take him to the doctor, does that make him an optimist? Not in my opinion. It would help to find a reliable thermometer, and research at what level a fever is "bad". And hope that the father/mother loves the child, at any rate.

bebu

Love_Truth

Yes, God does exist. Some are just too arrogant or stupid to figure it out.

There, it's settled.

There are no atheists in a foxhole- when you're on your deathbed or in dire straights, you'll call on God.

Atheists, help is only a website or two away:

http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/nogod.html

http://www.doesgodexist.org/#pubs

Phantom Stranger

Boy, did somebody piss in your Wheaties today.

I don't think that theists are too arrogant or too stupid to overcome their belief in God... not most of them, anyway. I'm certain that there are a few sterling examples that peg the meter in at least one area...

Alan Watts wrote about a key difference that he perceived between Chinese and Western cultures: that Westerners tended to interpret the world as the result of someone's making, and the Chineseseemed to interpret the world as simply existing, without as much of a need to attempt to make it part of some large plan.

Whether or not his analysis of the Chinese is accurate, I don't know... but it's interesting to thihk about.

LittleToe

Abaddon:
My comment was specifically in connection with child abuse.

Rem:
Even as a theist, I agreed with your points, barring the one which Bebu addressed.

The point was that theists seem to have a more negative outlook on life, while atheists have a more positive, or at least neutral outlook.

This follow up was just as condescending, IMHO.
And for an example, just ask anyone who has met me, how I face life... as a theist.

Love_Truth:

Yes, God does exist. Some are just to arrogant or stupid to figure it out.

You're not helping.

Phantom:

I don't think that theists are too arrogant or too stupid to overcome their belief in God... not most of them, anyway.

Did you mistype this, or was it intended to come across as stating that theists are misguided, and most of them will eventually see the error of their ways?
If that was your intent, you may want to consider whether or not you are being as dogmatic as Love_Truth.

God does exist...

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