Congratulations, Spain - first government to fall because of Iraq, Bush!

by TheOldHippie 102 Replies latest social current

  • Love_Truth
    Love_Truth

    Oh, that top post just asks for, and reminds me, of this comment from PJ O'Roarke on European Socialists:

    ...Back in London, I was having dinner in the Groucho Club - this week's in-spot for what's left of Britain's lit glitz and nouveau rock riche - when one more person started in on the Stars and Stripes. Eventually he got, as the Europeans always do, to the part about "Your country's never been invaded." (This fellow had been two during the Blitz, you see.) "You don't know the horror, the suffering. You think war is..."

    I snapped.

    "A John Wayne movie," I said. "That's what you were going to say, wasn't it? We think war is a John Wayne movie. We think life is a John Wayne movie - with good guys and bad guys, as simple as that. Well, you know something, Mister Limey Poofter? You're right. And let me tell you who those bad guys are. They're us . WE BE BAD.

    "We're the baddest-assed sons of bitches that ever jogged in Reeboks. We're three-quarters grizzly bear and two-thirds car wreck and descended from a stock market crash on our mother's side. You take your Germany, France and Spain, roll them all together and it won't give us room to park our cars. We're the big boys, Jack, the original, giant, economy-sized, new and improved butt kickers of all time. When we snort coke in Houston, people lose their hats in Cap d'Antibes. And we've got an American Express card credit limit higher than your piss-ant metric numbers go."

    "You say our country's never been invaded? You're right, little buddy. Because I'd like to see the needle-dicked foreigners who'd have the guts to try. We drink napalm to get our hearts started in the morning. A rape and a mugging is our way of saying 'Cheerio.' Hell can't hold our sock-hops. We walk taller, talk louder, spit further, f*ck longer and buy more things than you know the names of. I'd rather be a junkie in a New York City jail than king, queen and jack of all you Europeans. We eat little countries like this for breakfast and shit them out before lunch."

    P.J.O'Rourke - Holidays in Hell

    OK, you can hurl tomatoes at me now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Love_Truth- ducking for cover!!!

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  • Phantom Stranger
    Phantom Stranger

    "Isn't the democracy in Iraq our best hope for a stable, peaceful relationship with the Islamic world? "

    No, it is not. Not that one. Our best hope was, and continues to be, an international force implementing a constitutional form of government over years - years! - with a gradual transition to democracy.

    An instant transition to democracy will only result in a democratically-elected hard-line Islamist state that almost instantly will start getting rid of constitutionally-protected liberties.

    Democracy only worked in the US because there was a tradition of rule of law, of justice - and the culture inherited from the British gave some expectation of how a government on principles could operate - even if the British government came up short in that regard for Americans.

    Every time "instant democracy" has been tried in countries with tradition of corruption and oppression, it's struggled or failed. Putin's recent' "election" is a great example, but there are others. There needs to be some stability and some culture of "rule of law" before democracy can succeed - it's no "magic pill".

    Spain's incoming PM has repeatedly stated that Spain has no problem being part of a UN force in Iraq.

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  • shamus
    shamus

    I find it amusing that all these posters have opinions on what should have happened, yet have no idea what it's like to live in spain, have NO IDEA what the politics are like, what the party who was ousted was like, etc. etc. etc...

    Sounds like "americanism" to me. "War on terror" my ass. Stop looking at the little picture, stand up and see what's really going on.

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  • shamus
    shamus

    P.S.

    Canada's next. Al-Quaida (sp) said that we were on they're list of countries to be affected by backing bush too.

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  • Simon
    Simon
    They have no outlet for their political frustrations. In their homelands, they are not permitted to rally, dissent, vote out their chieftains. If they could, perhaps they would not seek outlets in violence and bombings. In Iraq, coincidentally, the marchers are now permitted to rally for the first time in 30 years. It is no coincidence, in my opinion, that Bin Laden and most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi, one of the most repressive and politically backwards regimes in the world.

    Ah ... and now we have to take a further step back and ask why they cannot get rid of those governments?

    Because they are being supported by the USA for it's own interests ! (as was Saddam)

    It is no coincidence that the most unpopular governments (Egypt, Saudi) are 'allies' of the USA. Where the people are allowed to have the governments they want they are much more sympathetic as people to the USA even though their governments may not be (witness the genuine sympathy from the people after Sep 11).

    The answer is to stop installing and propping up dictators and governments that violate human rights and let people get on with things ...

    Oh, I forgot. Ya need to get yer oil "fix" don't-cha ! Dependency is a terribly thing.

    As for not being able to change our tack, that is just silly. I agree that the occupation should be seen through to the end, however much it hurts the USA to do so. But if the whole approach is wrong and has totally the opposite effect than desired then to continue invading countries will go down as the biggest mistake in history.

    There is a filem with Sean Connery in (maybe the untouchables) where, after bashing some bad guy, in his inimitable accent he asks "How do you think he feels now? Better? ... or worse !"

    If things are getting worse then maybe we should look at doing things differently rather than charging on headlong with some religious zeal.

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  • Simon
    Simon

    BTW: Exported democracy is not the great thing made out.

    First of all, the country doing the exporting has been shown to be a little lacking in democracy itself. How difficult can conducting an election be really? LOL

    Secondly, what is more important and valuable to people is a constitution with some rights for them, not democratic elections per se.

    There are lots of countries that have elections but it doesn't mean that people have a say or any security.

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  • talesin
    talesin
    Canada's next. Al-Quaida (sp) said that we were on they're list of countries to be affected by backing bush too.

    Horse Puckey !

    You must be listening to Global News, fear mongers extradinaire.

    Where have you been for the past year, Shamu? We DON'T back Bush, we back the UN.

    tal

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  • Phantom Stranger
    Phantom Stranger

    shamus, would you mind illuminating us ... or do you just want to fly in and do the seagull thing on the thread and fly away?

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  • shamus
    shamus

    LOL, Phantom Stranger. I choose to fly in and fly away....

    There are no answers here. None that I can see at least. In order to try to figure it out I would need to do research in regards to the politics of spain... something I have no time for. Oprah is on soon, LOL!

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  • blacksheep
    blacksheep

    "Since then we have been lied to, treated like fools, a weapons inspector commited suicide under government pressure, Our BBC, which is our broadcasting medium, paid for by us to entertain, educate and inform has been berated, and we have been taken into an Illegal war with no UN mandate,"

    Lets see, the inspector had to finally acknowledge, and tragically, commit suicide because he MADE UP the allegations that reports had been "sexed up." You can't blame that on the government, but upon his own weak character. Secondly, are you SERIOUS about the UN??? I guess the national kickbacks to France, Russia, and other nations in the food for oil programs just totally escaped your notice. The UN totally screwed it up, turned a blind eye to nations who were exploiting the program for self interest (and, who by the way, opposed the war , largely for personal reasons--their kickbacks would be cutoff). For such supported the corruptions that is just now being exposed, I would not trust the UN to make decisions on a kindergarten playground, let alone on the world scene..

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