by Descender 42 Replies latest social relationships
Sorry, dude, but I've been reading their threads and "relationship advice" for weeks.
It brought a smile to my face, when you commented like that.
Maybe I'm just getting old (-fashioned), but I don't think I see it quite the way you do
Hope things are going well in Oz, for ya
(In case you're wondering, I sent my support / advice via PM's, because I had run out of posts)
Descender, I got out of a long term relationship by doing exactly what your wife has been doing, even down to spending all my time online talking to women and going to Canada to see one of them.
It's pretty clear she has fallen out of love with you, so now you have a couple of choices -
1) Walk away
2) Work on getting her to fall back in love with you.
The second is obviously the most difficult, she has set her mind and her heart on freedom and is being pretty blinkered about getting it. This doesn't make her a bitch or make her a bad person, she just missed out on a normal youth as a dub so she wants to reclaim her life. If you can chill out and show her she can experience freedom while still being married to you then you are onto a winner. If you make her feel like she is trapped then you will lose her forever.
Good luck
Maybe I'm just getting old (-fashioned), but I don't think I see it quite the way you do
Hello LittleToe! I'm not sure on your age, but I must say that today's generation of young women are much different than they were, say, 30 or 40 years ago (hope you don't take offense to that). I believe that there are many more young women today who use men for attention, free drinks, free money, and sex buddies. Way back, before I was born, women didn't have their equal rights, nor did they have control in relationships. They were supposed to become a housewife when they got older. They were supposed to be under control from their husbands.
Today, things are much different. We have women who are presidents of large companies, women who go to work while their husband stays home with the kids, etc etc. I'm not necessarily saying this is a bad thing, but it's caused things to shift in the male-female relationship. Men are becoming what women were 30 or 40 years ago. The bible says "women, be in subjection to your husbands", and that's the way it was. Now it almost seems to be the other way around. There are so many women out there that use sex as a "carrot" to get things their way. They make men go down on their knees, and agree to a woman's every demand to get sexually satisfied.
Whether it was 40 years ago or today, a good balanced relationship is difficult to achieve.
Just my thoughts.
I hate to say it, but I've been on both sides of this too.
Descender, make this as unemotional as possible and look at the hard facts. You married young. She married too young. You were both scammed out of the adolescent and early college stage of life where one experiences relationships with different people and dating. She is now wanting that stage she missed. Why don't you have it too? If it TRULY is love, you two will make it back to each other despite other people being in your life. Busy yourself with your own fun while she has hers. If you want to separate or divorce, go ahead. Like I said...if you're meant to be together, you will be.
Your wife is young and immature (as are most JW kids that don't experience normal life) and in some ways NEEDS to experience what she's wanting. If nothing else, to realize it's not all it's cracked up to be. BUT, in the meantime, control what YOU can control, which is taking care of your needs. You may need to experience this as much as she does.
Unfortunately, I did this with my ex-husband, although the circumstances were a little different. The best thing he did, was let me do my thing and HE moved on with his life. He later realized that he was happier WITHOUT me. Perhaps one day, you will begin to see that you too, are better off without her. (I know that's hard to see now, but you'll be surprised even a month or two down the line.)
TAKE CARE OF YOU!!!!
They make men go down on their knees, and agree to a woman's every demand to get sexually satisfied.
Nos, although I agree that the male/female standards are changing in today's generation, I disagree with the above statement.
Two things in response to this:
One, nobody can make anybody do anything. If men buckle under the pressure of their woman, they deserve to be treated like a doormat. I say this because until I learned to respect myself, I buckled under the pressure of anyone's whim - especially the men in my life. It's really hard for me to feel sorry for people that get trampled. One is treated that way only because they allow it. Just because a woman is emotionally strong, knows what she wants out of life, and is assertive/aggressive enough to get it, doesn't mean she is abusing her feminity. (I don't know if that's where you were going, but that's how it comes across.)
Two, switch "men" with "women" and "woman's demand" to "men's demand" and you'd have an uproar here. THAT'S been reality for HUNDREDS of years.
Just because a woman is emotionally strong, knows what she wants out of life, and is assertive/aggressive enough to get it, doesn't mean she is abusing her feminity. (I don't know if that's where you were going, but that's how it comes across.)
That's not really what I was getting at. At least, I don't see it that way. Society puts a lot of pressure on the need to "get laid". I've noticed so many men telling other men "you need to get laid", and some guys go on a mad hunt to achieve this. "I need to get laid!" Repeatedly telling themselves something like this works much like affirmations. They start believing that it's a need, not a pleasure.
I also don't believe it's the strong, assertive female that uses sex as her weapon. It's the golddiggers, the attention whores, the controllers, and the manipulators that do it. They're the ones who know sex is the one and only thing most men are after, and they use it as a bribe to get their own way. I highly doubt there were many of these types of women years ago. They're the ones who see that they have power, and go out of their way to abuse it only to their advantage.
Hope that's a little more clear :)
Whether it was 40 years ago or today, a good balanced relationship is difficult to achieve.
I agree with the latter half of that statement, but I think any reasonable person would agree that it's not just better today, it's waaaaaaaaaay better today, givin the total power vacuum for women in the past.
And indeed, much of the pain of modernity stems from the more outrageous sins of the past. That power deficit left women with only one thing to use to achieve any power or control in their lives, S E X. It's no wonder that only 30 or 40 years into gaining a modicum of freedom, that women are using that freedom to be... well... bitches. After all, men have been bastards and assholes for thousands of years, no?
Is the lesson to the above that tit-for-tat () is the justified deal, or even the inevitable? No. IMO, the lesson is that, underneath certain wonderful physical differences (*crosses self*), substancial cultural differences, and a visit from the devil himself once a month, women and men are almost exactly the same.
Of course, all this progress for women has come in part (and certainly with more speed) because some men, many men, have been willing to be bigger than the situation, have been willing to rise above the status quo. They saw the power inequality and saw, unlike Jehovah, that it was not good. Men like dat simply (yeah right, oh that it were simple) have to find women like dat, and vice versa.
Six~ likes it like dat class
IMO, the lesson is that, underneath certain wonderful physical differences (*crosses self*), substancial cultural differences, and a visit from the devil himself once a month, women and men are almost exactly the same.
This is one opinion that I will NEVER make my own. I find men & women to be incredibly different from each other. Men are logical, Women are emotional. Descender's situation is an excellent example of this. If you look at the logical aspect of this relationship, they should make it work. After all, they are married. Even though Descender has his emotions controlling many of his actions, they are quite logical. His goal is to make his wife happy. He bought her a card and flowers to make her happy. But it didn't work. Why? His wife just doesn't feel that way for him. But that's so illogical! Of course she should feel that way for him! She agreed to marry him! She should love him to pieces! He does as much as he can to make her feel special!
What I'm guessing is going through her head is, "Well he's a nice guy, but I just don't feel that way for him". Why she FELT that way for him at one time is open to speculation. Perhaps he had many female friends? Perhaps he had a girlfriend? Perhaps he was marked as "bad association" in the congregation (which is exciting). Or perhaps she just really needed to let off the sexual frustration that had been building over the course of her pre-marital JW days. It's hard for me (or anyone) to guess with the JW history factored in, since it throws the natural male-female interaction off (ie finding a spiritually strong brother, pillar in the congregation, baptized, etc). Without the JW marriage partner qualifications still intact after the marriage, there is a good risk of it completely falling apart. Being a "spiritual brother" isn't enough to keep a marriage together, and the novelty quickly wears off.
Nos and others are right on the money.
I have seen many women behave as Decender's does. I personally refuse to treat her as a victim. Regradless of her gender she's treating him like crap. This behavior soooo prevelant. This is not some new unique behavior. If you let them walk all over you they will and dislike you for it. To me it's that simple.
As for calling her a B!$ch, I think the title is well deserved considering the described behavior. I can feel compassion for her, and no doubt their might be something that you could point to as a factor, but in my opinion their is no excuse for someone treating another person like a piece of garbage. I'm calling this one like I see it.
An alcoholic may have real good reasons for his/her addiction. Some really powerful things may have caused them to go over the edge. But that makes them no less an arrogant, abusive, ass, when they are drinking. I can equally feel compassionate for an alcholic, but I in no way will share my company with one who is determined to wallow in their problems with no concern for my well being.
If men buckle under the pressure of their woman, they deserve to be treated like a doormat. - well said, I might only add "if people buckle under.."
There seems to be a whole crop of "Nice Guys" these days who for some reason feel it's necessary to sell out their all of their dignity to win over a women. They are getting slaughtered because in reality women - people - do not respect someone who will cower and submit to their every whim. That's not what a relationship is about.
Just a comment from Canada
It sounds to me like she is on a path of self-destruction. I would suspect she was unfaithful during her trip to Las Vegas. And she feels guilty about it hence the pushing you away and all the criticism. For all the finger pointing she has done towards you just remember there are 3 fingers pointed right back at her (point your finger at something and look at your hand).She is projecting all her problems onto you.
And sadly for a lot of reasons you are taking it.
I agree with many of the others here. Walk Run Find a lawyer and let her know it.
Do not agree to talk to her or see her until she has had at least a year of therapy if she ever wants to get back together. I doubt she will do it.
What tips me off to this being a real problem and not just a matter of wanting to experience life is where she has chosen to go work. A person who is feeling good about themselves and the choices they are making doesn't need all this kind of attention.
She might be drowning in this new life but there isn't a thing you can do to save her. She has to do this on her own. And I think only a lot of good therapy will help her.
BTW You might think about some counseling for yourself for a short term until the worst of this is over for you
