Yerusalyim I don't think the Palestinians can give up violence, it's all that holds them together, the hatred of Israel. I know quite a few Palestinians and I've lived in a couple of Middle Eastern countries and have found that the Palestinians are very very factionalized. They are also really disliked by almost everyone else in the area. The Egyptians don't like them, the Gulf States don't like them, the Kuwaitis and Saudis despise them. Oh they give money and talk a lot but that's as far as it goes. The only thing that holds it all together is the mutual animosity for Israel and the goal of driving the Iraelis into the Med.
Hamas Founder DEAD
by Yerusalyim 119 Replies latest social current
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roybatty
You seem to have blinkers on for what the Israelis do. How about we move the 'jewish homeland' and put it in ... America. Yes, we'll just tell the population of one state to piss off elsewhere and that it's not their home anymore, ship a load of people in and take all their land.
Boy oh boy, just look at all the Arab nations offering to give them a homeland, oh wait a minute, they haven't....DOOO!
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roybatty
The difference between "war" and terrorism is tactics. When you kill innocent people in an attempt to break national will...that is terrorism.
That's a slippery slope you're going down Yeru. The firebombing of Dresden by the Brits during WWII that killed tens of thousands of German civilians...terrorism or war? The British slaughter of civilian Boers in South Africa....war or terrorism? Just a couple of examples.
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Satanus
Pork
If they are like that now, the question comes up, what were they like before the jewish terror of 1948, or before the first war? From what i've read, and from descriptions by some people i know who lived around there, i got the impression that it was reasonably peaceful there. Beside arabs, there were jews (sephardic), and christians who tolerated each other quite well. It appears that it really blew up when britain and israel started drawing/redrawing borders in the middle east, then escalated in 1948.
SS
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Pork Chop
It's my opinion, for reasons too lengthy to go into here, that the curent "Palestinians" are almost entirely an artificial construct that grew out of that post 1948 period. Prior to that time, most of these folks considered themselves Jordanians if anything, of course it's somewhat difficult to define a Jordanian, they're certainly not all Hashemites. I also believe that the pressure cooker which created the "Palestinians" was deliberately fostered by the surrounding Moslem countries to keep the pressure on Israel. Palestinians are absolutely as much a victim of the Moslem nations as they are the Israelis. You might make a few inquiries into how they've dealt with the Palestinians when they got out of hand, massacre is the appropriate word. There's not a lot of information out there because they don't like to talk about it.
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ozziepost
the curent "Palestinians" are almost entirely an artificial construct that grew out of that post 1948 period. Prior to that time, most of these folks considered themselves Jordanians if anything, of course it's somewhat difficult to define a Jordanian, they're certainly not all Hashemites.
I think there's some truth in this, but not "the whole truth" from what I understand. I have a number of Palestinian friends from positions of influence who consider themselves first and foremost Palestinian. True, there is much overlap with Jordan but I'm not sure it's as simple as saying that Palestine is an artificial construct.
But I could be wrong. Heaven knows most of us are where the Middle East is concerned!
Cheers, Ozzie
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Pork Chop
They consider themselves Palestinians "now", but what would they have considered themselves in 1946? That's probably the real question. It would take more than a complete book to really address this issue.
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Satanus
Pork
I understand that some palestinians came there from the surrounding areas for work and better opportunities. However, the majority are indigenous. Whatever they called themselves in 1946 isn't relevant, if they were living or travelling regularly in the area. It's the borders and country names that are artificial. I mention people traveling, because there was quite a bit of nomadism there. If nomads decide to settle,can you deny them?
SS
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Yerusalyim
Pork Chop has it correct...The Pre Mandate Arabs in the area considered themselves part of Greater Syria...The region they called Palestine...was then divided into several countries by the British (Churchill in particular) with NO REFERNCE or input from Israel...which didn't exist at the time (SS, hard for Israel to have been carving up the middle east when they didn't exist. According to Sam Clemons in the late 1800's the area that is now Israel and the Occupied Terretories had less than125,000 inhabitants...most of the 1.3 million that were there in 1948 were immigrants...Jewish and Arab alike. It should also be remembered that both Arafat and what's his name of Hamas are both EGYPTIAN...not Palestinian.
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Atilla
This Hamas guy, Yassin I think was his name, deserved to die but I'm pretty sure that killing him won't really make much of a difference and of course will only add to the violence. I guess if one day Osama grows to be old, people will say ah, he's old, why bother. Of course, at the rate we are going, Osama might just die of old age.
Also, it kinda funny yet it's not, but I think I saw that when I.D.D. got Yassin with a helicopter gunship, all that was left was a big grease spot and and some scrap metal from his wheel chair. I guess he should have had some better body guard protection or maybe a faster wheel chair.