Hamas Founder DEAD (page 6)

talesin

Yes Dansk !

As with all healing, that is the first step (and imho, half the battle).

t

IT Support

I have a strong sympathy for the Palestinians. I believe the Israelis have treated them just as badly as the Germans treated the Jews, in contempt even if not in scale.

There will never be peace so long as either party believes there is a chance of a military victory.

Regards,

Ken

donkey

What were the mass arial attacks of cities then? Acts of war upon civilians or acts of terror?

Not sure which ones you are talking about here.

It has been interesting to me to watch how for instance in WWII Germany bombed cities - and yet we call it war. With the advent of the Geneva convention we learned to draw clearer distinctions between the two - Wars are fought between soldiers and anything else is taboo. I don't personally see it as black and white because I am not as "civil" (I am just a lowly beast so gimme a break). It seems that if wars are to be fought between nations then nations are battling not just the military forces from each. It's a huge oxymoron to fight a civilzed war, isn't it?

Now take a nation under Sadam. If Sadam could have taken out a million Amaerican civilians I think he would not have hesitated to do so. But when the US takes the war to Iraq, we have had to fight a "civilized" war. The "civilized" war (CW) cost us much more than a plain ugly old fashioned war because we used smart bombs that were intent on hitting only military targets. (true there were civilians hit but one might easily make the case that this is one of the most "civil" wars ever fought). I am not justifying the cause of the war or if the US should have been there etc I am just looking at the manner in which the war was fought.

So some would argue that it is ironic that we spend all these dollars on a CW using smart bombs when our enemy would likely never have done the same to the US if they could have gotten the upper hand. In speaking with some fellow Americans they would advocate that we use the cheapest dirtiest, biggest bombs possible. For instance, why not nuke your enemy rather than fight a smart bomb war? It is cheaper and no soldiers from your side need set foot on the battle field. Afterall the life of our kids is worth more than the life of some silly Iraqi isn't it? (note intended sarcasm before you beat poor ole Donkey again).

scotsman

In WWII the Allies bombed cities too. My point is that at that time it was described as war and as you point out, our definitions have changed. Is there any black and white, it all seems a dirty grey to me.

Talesin and Ian.

I'm with your revolution!

donkey

Israel vs Palestine...

Who gives a damn? I know I don't. 2 nations formed because of 2 different religions. Have at it fella's take each other out. Get rid of religion and the causes of this go away. Any other approach is an illusion. If religion is allowed to play a role the problems will not be solved no matter what air-brained scheme the world decides to come up with.

The world is a better place without Christianity, Islam and without Judaism - but then I know I am dreaming.

Pleasuredome

Why must Israel exist? Might have something to do with the abundant anti-semetism found in europe.

yes, so they transported some of the anti-semetism to palestine instead.

why people believe the myth that all jews are semetic is beyond me. the palestinians are more semetic than the vast majority of jews who live in israel.

patio34

Hi 2EscapedLifers,

You said:

Why does everyone think we need to understand hundreds of years worth of political history to try and solve the problem. We don't, and neither do the Israeli's or Palestinians(sp?), live a hundred years ago - or forty years ago - or in the 60's, 70's, etc. We, and they, live NOW. Moving on from here is what is important!

I disagree. To just stumble on without knowing how the situation was arrived at, and worse, to be killing people over it, is to rule out a solution without ever knowing WHY the situation exists. I'm glad that most tacticians at least study the current situation in light of how they arrived at their stalemate.

Most of the people living in that area NOW probably know as little as we do about the complex historical circumstances that brought us to where we are today

I doubt very much that this is true. People usually know their own history, especially if they've been wronged.

Pat

talesin

patio

I couldn't agree more.

donkey

Who gives a damn? I know I don't.

Surely you wish to make a contribution to the debate - else, why are you here?

Please do not muddy the issues with inflammatory comments - this has been an enjoyable, respectful debate thus far. Why not add to the exchange of ideas?

talesin

Dansk

Scotsman

Talesin and Ian.
I'm with your revolution!

There ya go! We've started getting somewhere already - three of us! Now all we've got to do is convince the world. And not a bullet fired or a rocket launched.

Ian

donkey

Who gives a damn? I know I don't.

Surely you wish to make a contribution to the debate - else, why are you here?

I honestly don't care which side wins...they will always both be losers because they will never solve their differences with their current frame of reference. Me not caring which side wins does not invalidate my ideas.

Please do not muddy the issues with inflammatory comments - this has been an enjoyable, respectful debate thus far. Why not add to the exchange of ideas?

Sorry you are wrong.Ii have made the most insightful comment of all on this debate. The cause of all the middle east crap is religion. If you cannot understand that then you can mindf**k yourself along with everyone else about the problems while never addressing the REAL causes.

I do hope my comments ARE inflammatory because then people will be uncomfortable with things (if only with me thats fine you can ignore me if you like). Discomfort is what brings change. It's time the whole range of religious idiots (I am right..., God said..., you are condemned because you dont believe as I do...etc crap) were wiped out. They are a cancer to the rest of humanity - all of them and you cure cancer by killing it.

Hamas Founder DEAD

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