Abortion, and the population explosion, what your veiw. (page 12)

FlyingHighNow

that type of obnoxious moralising exists

I was on the fence regarding this issue, but have now landed on the side of the pro-choicers, thanks to the anti-abortionists!

Ascot, as I just commented to Abaddon, I am not anti-choice. Please scroll up and read.

You think it's obnoxious that I am very glad my mother did not choose abortion as a way to deal with her pregnancy with me? I am very glad no one reasoned with her that she should see abortion as a viable option and then her listen to him/her and end my life.

I would ask anyone who is pondering this subject to consider whether they would have wanted their own life cut short by an abortionist. It's a rhetorical question. It's something anyone should think on.

That said: I am not anti-choice. I would not change the laws and head backwards. I understand that this is a very hard problem to solve. I don't want to see women butchered by back room butchers. Understand? I hope so.

Flyin'

ThiChi

Yer: It is truly a pleasure reading your arguments and points. You are truly a good example of how to argue correctly.

On the topic of abortion: I believe that the majority of people, if they would have the choice of being aborted or being born, would pick being born. I know I would.

So my creed is : Why choose for someone else an outcome you would not choose for yourself? So I am in favor of "Pro Choice" for the unborn....

For many, the easy taking of life has become an excuse for loose conduct.

FlyingHighNow

FlyingHIghNow:
No worries, I understand where you came from with that comment now... I did wonder about the about-face! Having been there and supported one girl through her decisons (which I would of done even if they'd been contrary to mine), I am perhaps a little sensitive - sorry.

Hey, it's cool. I understand.

Flyin'

acsot

Flying: you say you are trying to get people to think, yet you jumped on Abaddon and said you were glad he wasn't around to "influence" your mother. If you had actually read Abaddon's posts, you'd know he was pro-choice and therefore would have left the choice up to your mother. As would I. Pro-choice. If that was your mother's choice, good for her. Your attacks are groundless.

And yes, it is obnoxious moralising to say that Abaddon or I or anyone else who respects people's choices would wish that you had never been born, that you are glad we weren't around when you were conceived. That is completely ridiculous and I think you know it.

(FWIW, I think your mother would be proud of your stand! You've got guts and probably take after your mother in that respect. She did good.)

FlyingHighNow

And yes, it is obnoxious moralising to say that Abaddon or I or anyone else who respects people's choices would wish that you had never been born, that you are glad we weren't around when you were conceived. That is completely ridiculous and I think you know it.

I never said you or anyone wished I had not been born.Read again, please. My comment to Abaddon was not an "attack". I commented in complete calmness and seriousness. I never dreamt anyone would take it as an attack or an insult. I don't feel it's a ridiculous question at all to ask, "Would YOU have wanted your mother to end her pregnancy with you?" It's a rhetorical question. Would you have wanted your mother to have chosen to end you in utero? Why do you find this insulting? You enjoy being among the living do you not?

Sure, my mother had the choice, as does anyone's mother, to end her pregnancy. I am very glad that no one was there to influence her to end her pregnancy. I am very glad to be alive.

Abortion is a profound decision. No one should ever take the decision to end a pregnancy lightly.

My rhertorical question is meant to be a sobering one. Abortion should definitely be a sober subject.

If you find this offensive, then well, what can I do? Maybe someday you will understand. Maybe you won't ever understand. It doesn't make what I said deliberately offensive. If you take offense I have no control over that.

You're right, mother would be very proud of me were she alive today. (She'd be very glad I am not a JW any longer!) She died in my arms by the way. That was a choice I made. She couldn't speak and ask. I did this for her because I appreciated that she gave birth to six children and one miscarried little boy. She was there for us always and never abandoned us. I couldn't let her die a lonely death. I was very grateful to her, so I stayed with her as did my oldest sister. It's not pleasant watching someone die. It's not always peaceful and serene like they portray on TV. She spent several harrowing days chainstoking with a 106+ fever.We sponged her and swabbed her mouth.We played her favortie music and we comforted her. It was heartbreaking. It wasn't pretty at all; but we stayed with her. I am sure she is very happy that she chose to have us girls. We cherished our mother. We still cherish our mother.

Flyin'

acsot

Abortion is a profound decision. No one should ever take the decision to end a pregnancy lightly.

Why would you mention that? Do you think that people are taking it lightly? I haven't seen that in this thread at all, not me, nor Abaddon, nor any other pro-choicers.

As for your mother's suffering and your description of her death as not being "like it is on TV", believe me, you're not the only one who has dealt with end of life issues. I have my mother living with me now, she has had two strokes and a heart attack in the past year. I take care of her medication, arrange everything to do with home care, I've cleaned up after she's been incontinent, and on and on. Guess what? It's my choice!

Maybe you don't mean it the way it comes across, or maybe you do, I don't really care, but please don't be so condescending as to whether I'll ever "understand" it or not. And by the way, I'm very calm! Oh yeah, offended? Uh nope, not even that. Sorry!

At least we can actually discuss something without worrying about the appropriate Watchtower way of thinking.

FlyingHighNow

Why would you mention that? Do you think that people are taking it lightly?

I mean that abortion is a profound subject. It's a very sobering subject. It's you that has decided I am being condescending. I don't mean to be.

but please don't be so condescending as to whether I'll ever "understand" it or not. And by the way, I'm very calm! Oh yeah, offended? Uh nope, not even that. Sorry!

Really, I am bewildered that you are so offended. I can be sensative at times. Sometimes I read things into people's posts they didn't intend me to and let it upset me. I am trying to stop and think when I find myself reacting strongly to them. A couple of times I have been offended needlessly and wasted precious time, energy and angst, when if I had read things more carefully and put more thought into what was actually being said, I could have saved myself a lot of grief.

As for your mother's suffering and your description of her death as not being "like it is on TV", believe me, you're not the only one who has dealt with end of life issues. I have my mother living with me now, she has had two strokes and a heart attack in the past year. I take care of her medication, arrange everything to do with home care, I've cleaned up after she's been incontinent, and on and on. Guess what? It's my choice!

I know a lot of people who care for their parents. It's a very selfless and loving thing to choose to do. I am sure your mother is very grateful to have such a loving daughter who willingly and lovingly takes care of her at a most vulnerable time in her life.

At least we can actually discuss something without worrying about the appropriate Watchtower way of thinking.

This is very true. It's why I'm here at JWD. I am glad to know you.

Flyin'

TresHappy

Totally against abortion for many reasons...except for a few certain instances....

acsot

Flyin: I wish I could put tone of voice into my posts! I'm not offended, really. If you're ever in my neck of the woods I'll take you out for a drink, alcoholic or non-, your choice (choice - get it? hehe ... and I'm not being sarcastic, I'm sort of giggling right now). And some cheesecake that'll knock your socks off .

donkey

On the topic of abortion: I believe that the majority of people, if they would have the choice of being aborted or being born, would pick being born. I know I would.

It all depends...

If you are a Christian who believes abortion is the murder of an innocent baby then let me ask you this: what happens to the aborted baby's soul? Does it go to heaven? Is it spared from the possibility of going to hell or some equivalent place/state of eternal disapproval or torture?

...if you believe "aborted babies" do go to heaven then all God can be pissed off about is that we never gave the "aborted babies" the chance to grow into proper humans and screw up - the good ole free-choice!!

Christianity...the new blockage to the brain(tm)...

Abortion, and the population explosion, what your veiw.

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