Abortion, and the population explosion, what your veiw.

by frankiespeakin 134 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Abaddon

  I do agree that a woman should have control over her body and her reproduction...I just disagree with the seeming majority here who think that the fetus with a completely different DNA profile is part of the woman's body.

  It is; baby -> umbilical cord -> placenta -> uterus. This is not an area of opinion, there is no seperation between the bodies and one is contained in the other - simple facts, as is the amount of nerve tissue in a 12-week fetus being less than that in a pet rat.

  You can credibly say you have a belief that human life is sacred from the moment of conception, but you are trying to associate your beliefs with facts that do not support your beliefs and actually lose credibiltiy as a result.

  There is a HUGE difference between being physically mature enough to reproduce...and being mentally mature enough to make responsible reproductive choices. Sure, teach sex ed...but make sure that abstienence is a part of that education program. The answer to teen pregnancy isn't having girls going around popping the pill.

  Actually, condoms are far better. And abstinance is being taught at the cost of knowledge on how to prevent STDs and pregnancy. Not good.

  I'm still in favor of desexualizing society...and that's got to come from parents...and consumers. Do we really want our kids watching programs that glorify casual sex? Use sex to sell anything and everything? I'm not a prude...but I'm doing a lot of thinking on this here lately...I feel a thread coming on.

  WHY do you want other people to desexualise themselves because you say so? Are you saying you've never had glorious casual sex? Your suppositon is sex is bad because sex is bad...

  You can't just saythat sex is bad because of the consequences, as other countries show that you can be sexually liberal and not have those consequences.

  Therefore your opposition to sex is just an opinion, which of course you have every right to.

  I do agree that the huge double standard displayed over sexuality is damaging, but only because some countries are teaching abstinance and negelecting sexual education whlst glorifying sex at every opportunity; no wonder kids get pregnant...
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Abbadon,

  Sorry, you're just full of BS today. The fetus, from day one...has a seperate DNA profile, If I pull out a woman's hair, or draw blood, or take a saliva swap...the DNA profile will come up a match...if I take a DNA profile of a three day old fetus...it will be different from that of the mother...and that's just science.

  You seem to indicate that condoms are better BC than the pill? Not really...they break/leak way to easy...by the same token...miss just one day of the pill at the wrong time...

  AB, I'm not saying not to teach sex ed...I'm saying make abstinence a PART of sex ed...even ENCOURAGE kids to wait to have sex...

  I've not once said sex is bad...but it's clear from all evidence that there is zero benefit and lots of draw backs to kids having sex...sex, just like everything else...is great in it's proper place...14 year olds should be masturbating not humping.
• 

  Abaddon

  Yeru, you said;

  I just disagree with the seeming majority here who think that the fetus with a completely different DNA profile is part of the woman's body.

  I don't disagree over a fetus having DNA. You are saying it's not part of a womans body, and it is both connected to and inside a woman.

  Hell, by your definiton, your mitochondria are not part of your body. They have different DNA to your nuclei, yet are decidedly part of your body.

  So, no BS... on my part...

  The contraceptive pill is not just a sweetie that stops you having babies; it hits a woman's hormonal cycle like a ton of bricks and many suffer side effects. It also doesn't protect from STD. Thus condoms are a better focus for sex education campaigns. Surely you know this?

  I've not once said sex is bad...but it's clear from all evidence that there is zero benefit and lots of draw backs to kids having sex...sex, just like everything else...is great in it's proper place...14 year olds should be masturbating not humping.

  If sex is not bad why do you want to desexualise society?

  Zero benefits from your perspective. The teenagers might disagree, and it's their opinions which influence their actions, not yours.

  As for "14 year olds should be masturbating not humping", I totally agree, more so than you could know.

  A comprehensive sex education program would actually ensure kids knew A LOT about their bodies, and encourage them to keep it to themselves until they were older. It would also make it VERY clear what intimate, inappropriate touching was, and help safe guard children from sexual predators.

  I was watching a documentary about an abstinance program... they put a slide up to show the kids and my girlfriend and I had to laugh... they guy prefaced the slide with... "And here's the solution"... up pops a slide of a hand... we thought "WOW! That's amazingly progressive"... but he was talking about a RING on the finger, not about using your hand to beat sexual frustration.

  Do you actually know the format of any abstinance base campaigns? As the ones I've seen preach (literally) abstinance at the cost of a good background in contraception. You seem to assume they give equal coverage to both... and seem unaware that countries with non-abstinance based programs have higher average ages of losing ones virginity... oh, no, you do know that, I've told you a dozen times, you just ignore it..
• 

  funkyderek

  "mother nature" is still playing a role in "population control" AIDS is no better than any other pestilence that has killed mankind.

  Yes, "Mother Nature". Interesting turn of phrase. To me, that sounds like you're trying to claim that AIDS is part of the natural order of things without having to blame your god for it. Blame the heathens and their goddess.

  Of course the population will level out one way or another. A little foresight might prevent starvation and pestilence being the levelling factors.

  And abortion has little or nothing to do with the population explosion. At best, it is an inefficient and unpleasant means of contraception and should be used sparingly.
• 

  frankiespeakin

  Funky and Ab,,

  You guys are totally rockin dudes!!!!!

  We have had our battles in the past,, they were tremendeous fun,,, I hope you two guy are having fun I really do.

  I'm glad you guys are on this board you have made it such fun.
• 

  maxwell

  I don't usually get into abortion debates because it seems pointless. It is essentially a question of where you define the beginning of life, the creation of ovaries with eggs, the moment the sperm fertilizes the egg, the moment the cell divides the first time, the moment it develops rudimentary limbs... Personally I would have to define life as beginning at birth. I can't deny a woman that choice, but it is also a choice that the man is not allowed. The woman can not have the child or have it without the man's say. If the man doesn't want it, and the woman does she can try to force him to give up money. If the man wants it and the woman doesn't want it she can simply have an abortion. It is not a fair situation, but not something I see any kind of fair way to change either.

  It has already been stated that population growth really has no connection to abortion. But I think plain old instinct does have a lot to do with it. Whether you think its evolutionary or a natural desire a creator puts into people, most people want to have babies. The maternal instinct is so strong in some women that they feel incomplete without having children. Some societies look down on women who aren't fertile and don't have many children. I think a certain amount of that even goes on in our society. Couples spend thousands of dollars on fertility treatments. You can't change nature, but I think that's an illogical feeling or instinct that may need to suppressed. A person, even a woman, can still be a fulfilled, complete, great contributor to society without having children. I don't plan on having any children, but I think I have some worth.

  I also agree with asleif_dufansdottir. We use an enormous amount of energy in this country and then defend it calling it the American way of life. We definitely have luxurious and convenient lives, so of course, other people in the world will strive to have a similar type of lifestyle. If everyone in the world starts living this way, eventually, we will either have to severely cut back our energy usage or we'll have to find it somewhere other than the earth.
• 

  Crazy151drinker

  Well if we sent a couple of Nukes over to China would could drop the worlds population a notch or two.....
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  I don't want to see society become a bunch of prudes. I do agree that the media obsession with sex probably teaches kids a lot of wrong and hurtful ideas about it.

  By all means we should thoroughly educate our children about sex and birth control.

  Abortion? I would not want to see our country move in the direction of banning abortions. Women would still get them and there would be the backroom abortion butchers operating again.

  I personally don't think it's something that should be done unless the mother's life is in danger. I'd rather see adoption laws changed to make adoption a more attractive option for women of any age. I am pretty glad my mother chose to continue her pregnancy and allow me to be born. I always think about this when I think of the rightness and wrongness of abortion.

  I still think it would be a dangerous step backward to ban abortion. There is no easy solution to the situation. Until we figure out a way to make every pregnancy a wanted, healthy pregnancy we will have women seeking abortions.

  Flyin'
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Funky,

  If you want the theological debate, AIDS is caused by sin...all illness is caused by sin...not YOU SINNED SO YOU GET SICK, but sin in the general sins of the world's cummulative sin.

  Abbadon,

  While a comprehensive sex ed program might indeed give a lot of info and encourage abstinence....you won't find that taught.
• 

  SheilaM

  A man being an advocate for abortion is to me as bad as me being for sanctioned castration. From a womens point of view hey what is so bad about chopping off some testicles?

  I am of two minds on abortion I hate it. I wish it would never happen. The death of a helpless baby is horrific. But reality shows that women were dying from back alley abortions, they sought out ways to end pregnancy so the reality is if someone wants to abort a pregnancy it will happen legal or not.

  From a child abuse point of view, I think a fetus dying in utero is far less painful then a child being beat and tortured. Why these people don't choose adoption I will never know. But forcing someone to have a child that is not wanted and will be scarred for life or killed is worse, I believe.

  So for me the above is what makes this issue personal, a personal decision NO one else can make. For some of us it just becomes shades of gray.