Freedom to Choose God (page 61)

ozziepost

The point being that religions w practices that the surrounding, or even a small portion of their nieghbors disapprove of generally see themselves as being persecuted

My point is that this sure ain't a local USA thingy. So will you check it out? http://www.persecution.com

Satanus

My point is that this sure ain't a local USA thingy.

Do you mean there is no persecution in the usa, or ..?

So will you check it out?

I see no reason to. And i thought i was pithy.

S

gumby

My point is that this sure ain't a local USA thingy. So will you check it out?

First off ozgrumpybastard......get off your 'this aint a US thing kick'. We KNOW that. When you talk to people on this site that's from the US....you get US viewpoints.

I checked your site out and read the story on the chineeze underground minister who was arrested as well as 100 others which were freed less 5 detanies.

The reason for this persecution was not because the chineeze hate christ....hence hate his followers. The reason was because the chineeze government wants to keep the church of china as the religion as fears of christianity is becoming feared by them to become the the #1 religion.

Those government officials don't have a clue enough about jesus to hate him as they have no reason to hate a good man. They don't believe in him and they feel if christianity takes root their government will suffer under imperialism and they don't want that. It's ALSO happening with ANY cult.....christian or not. If that's true.....then a personal vendeta against jesus is out of the question and you cannot apply jesus words...."if they hate me, they'll hate you". Thats like saying "if you hate Charles Manson....you'll hate his followers too". Of course they will.That's a given.

Early Christians and Modern Christians are 'persecuted' many times because the government fear reprisals from it. It's not they hate Jesus....they just don't believe in him...plus the fact they despise ANY others who rain on their own agenda....not just Christians.

There....take that will ya

Gumby

ozziepost

Gumby:

There, i've said it right!

Actually I'm not at all grumpy, just get a little tired of some lines of argument, i guess.

Anyways, ya done good by at least checking out the site.

Now it's my turn to go to work.

Ozzie is leaving the building.

Cheers, mate,

Ozzie :)

gumby

Here is some news I found that supports it isn't just christians that are persecuted......it's 'control' the government is intrested in.....hence the persecution.

Feb. 28, 1992 (AP)
China to Crack down on the Growth of Religion among Youth

An increasing number of Chinese children are turning to religion and some have even rejected the Communist Party and refused to salute the flag, according to confidential documents detailing steps to limit religion among the young. Religious belief and participation in religious activities among youth is as high as 33 percent in some areas, said three documents obtained from Chinese sources by The Associated Press. China is officially atheist, although freedom of religious belief is guaranteed by the constitution.

The latest clampdown, which began late last year, indicates Beijing is unwilling to abandon some hard-line Marxist policies even as it steers toward support of capitalist-style development. The attack on religion apparently targets all faiths, but notably Protestantism, Catholicism, Islam and Tibetan Buddhism.

The documents, one from the central government and two from different provinces, illustrate restiveness among China's youth. One document said students in several counties in the coastal province of Zhejiang, a center of Protestant worship, refused to salute the Chinese flag or wear red scarves to show they belonged to the Young Pioneers, a group attached to the Communist Party. Students, according to the notice from the Zhejiang province's Education Commission, also refused to pay respects at the graves of Communist "revolutionary martyrs."

The nation's Education Commission said in a document that foreigners were partly to blame for the growth in believers and ordered surveillance of suspected proselytizers. The document, titled "Notice on the Prevention of Some Places Using Religious Activities to Hinder School Education," said surveys in three counties of 8,419 high school and elementary school students showed 19.6 percent were believers. Several schools, the Beijing document said, were violating party policy by hanging signs with religious overtones such as "Bethel Science Building" and "Grace Teaching Building." The circular, issued Aug. 5, 1991, was sent to each province. It called on authorities to strengthen "the Marxist view of religion and scientific thinking" among the young.

China's religious movements have turned violent in at least two areas. In northwest Xinjiang province, some Muslims of Turkish descent have clashed with officials as part of an effort for an independent republic. Dozens of Tibetan Buddhists calling for independence have been killed by Chinese security forces over the past four years.

Gumby

gumby

Coward!!!!

Gumby

LittleToe

DDog:

If God isn't "directly responsible" where there is evil directly involved and man is totally depraved, it would seem to me, that after creation and the fall, He isn't directly responsible for anything in this world today, where man is concerned. That is not a very comforting thought.

Come, come, now. You know I'm not saying that. Though if God were to have stepped in at any point before grace was dispensed, would He not have burned up everything in His wrath against sin? This also brings about the question of how God cannot even look upon sin, and yet Christ intercedes, but that's another discussion. My point is merely that God doesn't actively make people do evil things. They are responsible for their own actions, in that regard, whether it comes from a "totally depraved" human nature, or from an "innocent" one, as in the case of Adam.

ellderwho

Firstly, the tree was actually named "The tree of the knowledge of good and bad"

I disagree!

This also brings about the question of how God cannot even look upon sin, and yet Christ intercedes, but that's another discussion. My point is merely that God doesn't actively make people do evil things.

Really? Judges 9:23
Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech: 1 Samuel 16:15
And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee 1 Samuel 16:16
Let our lord now command thy servants, [which are] before thee, to seek out a man, [who is] a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well. 1 Samuel 18:10
And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and [there was] a javelin in Saul's hand. 1 Samuel 19:9
And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with [his] hand. Nehemiah 13:18
Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath. Jeremiah 23:12
Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery [ways] in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, [even] the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.

It seems Gods uses evil to get certain things done. Is this the same evil from Isa. 45:7?

Freedom to Choose God

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