Freedom to Choose God

by UnDisfellowshipped 774 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Brad:

    But isn't Christianity based on that "story"?

    Naww. Christianity is based on Jesus, with a splash of Judaic myth thrown in, to support the perceived need. If you forget all else that this thread has brought up, try to remember this: Christianity is simply about Jesus - the person - first and last. Anything above and beyond that is just layers of explanation because we don't like blank spaces.

    I'm honestly still trying to find "God" or utopia myself......although I am certain that I am closer to it than I was when I was a JW......

    If you are seeking "it" then you are probably doing more than you ever did as a JW.
    The "path" is one of lifelong learning. Unfortunately most can't accept how simple it is.

    ...but it is hard for me to accept Christianity as being infallible.

    Who, the heck, ever told you it was that???
    It's various forms are gawdammed awful, but the core of it is simply Jesus.

    And I know, LT, that you are likely wanting to say that finding God is not so easliy defined or classified as just being Christian, so I admit that I use that term loosely.

    Fine
    However the Christian model is actually rather simple, when you strip away the b*llsh*t.

    I feel free to choose god as I see him to be.
    My perception of him works for me.

    Does it really work for you?
    Then what (who) are you still trying to find (if genuine question)?

    If my opinion works for anybody else, then great, but I refuse to have any followers.
    I wouldn't feel right about people following me...... bad things happen when people follow.

    Me too.
    However, bad things happen when people don't follow, too. That, too, is a "human" thing, and everything is vanity... Whatever we do in life there's a statistical chance that it's gonna end out bad
    Isn't life generally about reducing those odds, by informed choices and judgement calls?

    Brad wrote to Gumby: I'm not blowing smoke up your a**.

    Wouldn't that tickle

    Gumby:

    Finding God shouldn't have to be a hide and seek game with a loving father with lost kids. Most dads go looking for their kid when they are lost, yet the bible god wants you to seek him. Cool dad eh?

    In the context of the theology presented in this thread, it would actually be more akin to God visiting a Romanian Orphanage and choosing a few kids who had nothing, to come live in the USA at some undetermined future time. Every now any then food parcels are sent in, but the kids still have to live and play with all the others.

    Sometimes, when a person of any belief doesn't know the exact answer to something, it's easier to dodge the question, or deflect the conversation away from your main point.....it's human nature, although a bad trait.

    And sometimes they are doing nothing of the sort. Sometimes the question is missed. Sometimes they are thinking about it, and meanwhile forget to acknowledge it (leading to frustration). Sometimes the question has already been answered in the thread, or in another recent one.
    However, there are no stupid questions, just the occasional stupid answerer

    Many times their interpretations ARE their answers.

    That, too, is true.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    JustHuman:
    Yeah, that was what I was trying to say. Succinctly put

  • justhuman
    justhuman

    God does not need any religion to do the marketing for Him.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Is that all religion is about?

    Some folks, being true to their gregarious human nature, enjoy worshipping alongside others.
    Such has been the case since the dawn of history...

  • gumby
    gumby
    Some folks, being true to their gregarious human nature, enjoy worshipping alongside others.
    Such has been the case since the dawn of history...

    Yea...can you imagine goin to an "Eagles" concert and you and your buddy are the only ones there? How bout going to see a movie....Imagine being the only one in the theater....or how about going to the Roman arena and watching people being thrown to the lions all by yourself. What a drag!

    (just kiddin bout the last one) sicko humour

    Gumby

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho
    Why did God not create Adam and Eve at the same time? Genesis 2:18 says (my apologies for using he NWT... ):

    Brad; Look at Gen 1:27

    And Jehovah God went on to say: "It is not good for the man to continue by himself. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him."

    Apparently Gen Chapter 2 (seventh day) deals with their story and not a chronological order of creation.

    At what point did it all become good? At what point did God become perfect in his judgement? If Eve was a complement, Adam was surely not considered to be whole before Eve was created.

    Again Gen 1:27. Everthing God does is righteous and good.

    Good point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have you noticed that they really don't like to answer OUR questions yet they will debate forever about their own interpretations of what was REALLY meant when the Bible said yadda yadda.

    Relax Brad, give it time.

    In my very humble opinion........... oh who the hell am I pretending to be....... I have seen enough bullsh*t in my life by Christians (and not just JW's) that I have a very hard time accepting it as being the WAY to happiness/god/salvation.

    Show me a Christian who says they have it right and I'll show you a liar.

    As the "topic" says, I feel free to choose god as I see him to be. My perception of him works for me. If my opinion works for anybody else, then great, but I refuse to have any followers. I wouldn't feel right about people following me...... bad things happen when people follow.

    How do you see(perceive) the God you have choosen?

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Gumby:

    Yea...can you imagine goin to an "Eagles" concert and you and your buddy are the only ones there?

    Yeah, that really sucked. I wonder where everone else was, but I cracked up when you helped your self to a hotdog from that abandoned stand. Btw, what was that white powder that covered the entire area, it made my skin tingle!

    ...oops

    EW:

    Show me a Christian who says they have it right and I'll show you a liar.

    Gotta go with that one.
    Dogmaticism sux!

    Dogmatix was a different matter, though. He hung out with Obelix and Asterix, and was one coool dawgy

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho
    EW:
    How is it possible to display righteousness if there is no alternative?

    I dont understand your question. If your saying Adam had no other reaction to life than to be righteous is pure spectulation. Hence, good does not equal righteous.

    I would say " how is it possible for Adam to display any other actions than righteousness if he had a clean slate" but that doesnt wash either because your making good equal to righteous.

    I think you want to give Adam this great start in life without realizing he was just a innocent man, further the bible does not state he was perfect. Remember that teaching from the org. I ran this by my mom and she took the bait instantly. "Oh yes' she said, he was perfect thats why he lived so long"

    I said show me in scripture where it states he was perfect? All she had was "it was very good" Yes but good is not perfect. And neither is good righteous.

    edited to add;

    If the bible had stated "he was created perfect" then I would lean towards Adams righteousness, but even thats problematic. How does a perfect man sin?

    Ah wheres the Brad dude?

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    LT

    Prov.12:22 doesn't carry any consequences that I see, so whilst it's a clear indication of God's feelings on the matter, is it actually a law?

    Is it actually righteous?

    Can you not concede that there was a time during which he wasn't acting unrighteously?

    I can concede that there were times when they were not sinning. But, I maintain that you have to know what right is in order to act rightly

    This moot point is becoming so nit-picking as to become ridiculous.

    I guess we have picked a few nits, though I'm sorry you feel that this is a moot point. It's just that I believe that this gets right to the core issue, and that is, if man ever could act righteously, he would not need God.

    The whole of sinful mankind from Adam (in a fallen state) through to ourselves.

    I don't see anything that looks like "in a fallen state" anywhere in the text.

    Law didn't bring about sin, it just revealed it as sin. From that realisation we can see our need of Christ!

    Would you say, it exposes, by instigating actions of attitudes that already exist? D Dog

  • outbutnotdown
    outbutnotdown

    Ah wheres the Brad dude?

    EW,

    Too many theories and not enough facts for me to base another thought on this topic. The answer is righteous. The answer is perfect. The answer is neither.

    My brain hurts now.... thanks a lot!!!!

    Brad

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