Just As A Matter Of Curiosity..........

by hillary_step 62 Replies latest jw friends

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Megadude,

    Colin Quackenbush in the Writing Dpt., Awake, said the higher-ups at Bethel read it. My ex-wife read it and it made no impression on her. She said there was no better place to go and that everybody makes mistakes. We had discussions ad nauseum on all the major topics covered in the book and it made no difference. She was extremely bright, a college grad/4.0 average.

    Intruiging. I know that you know that Quackenbush was not unaffected by his reading of CofC. I am quite sure that most in Writing and all the GB would have read it, whether it affected their outlook, one way or another is a different story. The GB member that I know who read it became very antagonistic about the whole affair, from a previously disinterested viewpoint. He standard defence was that "it is all lies". I can understand those with managerial positions to protect taking a more pragmatic view of things exposed in the book.

    Your wife however suprises me, especially as she seemed reasonable enough to discuss its contents. How is she these days?

    Best regards - HS

  • SwordOfJah
    SwordOfJah

    Yes, me.

  • Crazy151drinker
    Crazy151drinker

    Well that figures........

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    Just as a matter of curiosity I was wondering if any of you know of anybody who has read Raymond Franz' 'Crisis Of Conscience' and who actually remained a JW?

    Yes, my father in law read it. He gave it back to me and said, "I can't disagree with anything in that book."

    Three months later he committed suicide, not because of the book but I can't help but feel that the realization that he was not "Anointed", not going to be ruling next to Jesus and the knowledgethat he had wasted the past 40 years was one (among many other topics) that affected his outlook.

  • got my forty homey?
    got my forty homey?

    My Father who has been a witness for over 30 years read the book. Deep down insinde I felt he believed a lot of what was written, yet he stated he felt Franz was just a haughty individual and he threw the book away after reading it stating that it bothered his conscience reading it and that he was in the truth no matter what he read.

  • SwordOfJah
    SwordOfJah

    Should it surprise you? The book is a typical "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" tale. It is very similar to the posts on this forum that ridicule all Witnesses of Jehovah for their faith. I can see how it can affect someone that is already looking for a way out or someone that is critical of minor things in their congregation. It is only the point of view of one man and that's all.

  • Valis
    Valis

    hill I was interested in your question and I see it as a bit of a quandry for most people who are still in. I wished I could get my parents to read it. Anyway, I went digging and as I assume Amazon is a place where people buy it often I went looking at the reviews. Out of 63 these were the only negative comments I could find and what I would assume to be typical hard liner dubs. Or Amazon trolls *LOL*

    1 out of 5 starsUsed to Promote Violence and Bigotry, June 29, 2001

    Reviewer: Heinz Schmitz (see more about me) from High Point, NC United States
    Reviewer Kristina Gonzalez claims this book saved her life, yet daily we are receiving reports from those in Russia of the atrocities performed Jehovah's Witnesses, especially in the Georgian province. Interestingly, in order to fuel the cycle of hate and violence against Jehovah's Witnesses there, Ray Franz's polemic "Crisis of Conscience" has been translated into Russian and posted on the internet for free viewing. Franz claims to want to "help" others with his book...but instead it is being used in a most hateful fashion. I hope you can live with yourself Ray. I hope you can sleep at night, knowing your book is helping to destroy lives of your former brothers in Russia and turn the fight for religious freedom back to the dark ages. Frankly, I couldn't live with myself if I was in your shoes. If Kristina thinks Franz book promotes Christian Freedom, the facts speak otherwise. This goes for others also, like Ron Rhodes, James White, Rob Bowman, Walter Martin etc. If you only knew how your writings are being used to incite hatred, you might think twice. --This text refers to the Paperback edition

    This is a book about a bitter old man!, April 23, 1999

    Reviewer: A reader
    Below you will find direct bible based facts that sum up Mr franz-

    1 Tim. 4:1: "The inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons." 2 Thess. 2:3: "Let no one seduce you in any manner, because [the day of Jehovah] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction."

    Acts 20:30: "From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves." 2 Pet. 2:1, 3: "There will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them . . . Also, with covetousness they will exploit you with counterfeit words."

    Matt. 24:45-51: "Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? . . . But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, 'My master is delaying,' and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites."

    2 Tim. 2:16-18: "Shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. These very men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some."

    2 John 9, 10: "Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. . . . If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him." Rom. 16:17, 18: "I exhort you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them. . . . By smooth talk and complimentary speech they seduce the hearts of guileless ones."

    Prov. 11:9: "By his mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin." Isa. 32:6: "The senseless one himself will speak mere senselessness, and his very heart will work at what is hurtful, to work at apostasy and to speak against Jehovah what is wayward, to cause the soul of the hungry one to go empty, and he causes even the thirsty one to go without drink itself." (Compare Isaiah 65:13, 14.)

    2 Pet. 2:1: "These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves."

    Heb. 6:4-6: "It is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away ["if they then commit apostasy," RS], to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame."

    This is him in a nutshell! --This text refers to the Paperback edition

    Big shot against the JW organization... and miss., August 26, 1998

    Reviewer: An Amazon.com Customer
    This book is trying to proove that the author was unjustly removed from the JW organization. The conclusion is that if the JW remove good Raymond Frantz then they are evil. I agree with the decision of JW. Raymond Frantz was acused of apostasy. And he was guilty. He started to spread teachings opposite to Governing Body's. Every JW knows that it is the Governing Body who decides what to believe in. It freely admits that some of its teachings might be wrong but as a whole it will allow you to live forever. Old Testament people knew much less than we do, yet some of them found God. Raymond Frantz wanted the freedom of preaching of what he had found in the Bible by himself. If JW allowed Raymond to do it other would do the same. Soon JW would divide into many disputing fractions.

    Raymond found a few small imperfections in the organization and decided that he can't live with them. His friends and family always was JW so he never known how many problems is fixed by the biblical rules given by the JW organization. When he describes the faults of the organization it is like he was describing errors on the exam with 98% mark. For me this book is a big argument for becaming JW. If JW from the very top can find only so little dirt on the organization then count me in. --This text refers to the Paperback edition

    Sincerely,

    District Overbeer

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Swordy,

    Should it surprise you? The book is a typical "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" tale. It is very similar to the posts on this forum that ridicule all Witnesses of Jehovah for their faith. I can see how it can affect someone that is already looking for a way out or someone that is critical of minor things in their congregation. It is only the point of view of one man and that's all.

    Are you then suggesting that all the transcripts of conversations are lies and that all the photocopies are fake?

    These conversations and reproduced photocopies for example, present damning evidence of the fact that the GB for 'democratically' elect doctrine on a two thirds majority, including doctrines that have killed some and caused great misery to others uneccessarily. The GB change of heart regarding such life and death issues is a matter of public record even in the WT. What does 'Factor 8' mean to you? Are you suggesting that these issues do not exist and that Franz lied about them? HS
  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Valis,

    The problem that I see with many of these reviews is that no evidence is presented that these people actually read the book. Their comments read just like the typical reactions from JW's who might feel it not neccessary to read the book to know what it is about.

    Best regards - HS

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    hillary,

    : Just as a matter of curiosity I was wondering if any of you know of anybody who has read Raymond Franz' 'Crisis Of Conscience' and who actually remained a JW?

    I know someone who's mother read it and "didn't see what the big deal was" about the book. She remains a totally braindead witness. She's a nutball, though. I know. She's my mother's best friend of 45 years and my mother is also a nutball.

    Farkel

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