Right on again XQ. The Watch Tower's only devise is conceptualization and unchallenged acceptance. The dates don't matter in the least because whatever the Watch Tower Corporation prints or says is enforced with the threat of shunning. It's the enforcement that becomes important in a closed society.
Keep writing XQ. You are reducing the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation in a way I have never seen anybody do before. Thanks! GaryB
Is It Possible To Reason With A Typical Jehovah's Witness?
by minimus 117 Replies latest jw friends
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garybuss
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blondie
For kj
That is interesting, Minimus. Do you know which issue that was in? I'd love to ask my mom about that one.
w60 4/15 p. 249 Part 36: "Your Will Be Done on Earth"
The main one behind this shattering of Jehovah?s holy ones was Satan the Devil, who claims possession of all the kingdoms of this world and their glory. (Matt. 4:8, 9; Luke 4:5, 6) In 1914, when Michael stood up, the war in heaven was begun to oust the Devil and his demons. He was defeated by Michael, and there is Scriptural reason to believe that by the time of the annual celebration of the Lord?s evening meal on March 26, 1918, Satan the Devil was hurled down to the earth. For the reason that he now knows that he has yet a "short period of time" before he is bruised in the head in the battle of Armageddon, he has great anger, especially against the remnant of the sanctuary class. On these he has waged war by all means at his disposal. (Rev. 12:7-17) But to this date he has failed to show the power to shatter that he was permitted to show in 1918. Neither will he shatter Jehovah?s sanctuary in their "beauteous land" when he plays the part of Gog of Magog and comes down from the north with all his visible and invisible hosts to destroy the holy remnant and the "other sheep." He himself will be bruised. His power to shatter has come to an end.?Ezek. 38:1 to 39:16.
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Obviously Secret
I can't reason =(...
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minimus
Thanks Blondie for posting the source!
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Bubbamar
This thread is very long.
The answer to the question is obviously a unanimous "NO."
And just to add my 2Cents....I don't think 1914 matters. There will be loyal braindead dubbies no matter what. We all have the evidence of that. When I was in I had no idea what all that crap meant anyway. I just followed the rules because of threats of DFing and Armageddon.
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wheres caleb?
Unless things have changed, the Bethel family reviews the Watchtower study for the upcoming week on Monday. The study I observed some time back, had to do with the discussion of the dates 607 and 1914. The determination of these dates was irrefutable. This was some time back because it appears that the org can claim new light and conveniently change their position whenever it bails them out of their incompetence.
The conductor was a very intelligent (my perception), no-nonsense, type guy. He was rigid but I liked him. He proceeded to conduct and actually tripped himself up trying to explain the chronology. It was embarrassing and the audience stirred. His demeanor changed and he had to resort to stern, emphatic statements, which suggested to me, that he just wanted to get through with this study. I never did get it and I think the rest just felt that it could have been handled better.
I never had doctrinal issues with the org, I was content to be a follower and a good publisher (book pusher). To me, a typical JW is a person who just accepts things and doesn't question anything. Their ability to reason has declined because they are forced to face a mediocre teaching vehicle, a spiritual standard that employs double-standards. Some have to endure judgement while others get away with everything because Jehovah will correct things in his own due time. Your faith is challenged by the acceptance of these things. Where is the wisdom? I guess the answer will always be, wherever you choose to see it.
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JT
The great crowd will never hold the authority that the FDS does, unless new light changes things.
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and this is what is in the pipeline
the society has already laid the ground work for this new light back with the GIVEN ONES DOGMA-
so the wt in wt style starts building a dogma many years before they anounce it and when they do, they will refer back to the orginal ground work and say
we could see how jah was manuervering things back in the 80's putting in place men to to control of the org
from what i have been told the wt is working on REDEFINING THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE
in fact from what i have been told the definition will be along the lines of what former jw have always stated that any one loyal to god is faithful and descreet
thereby setting it up so that "NON" annointed can run things and for those of who who have longed stated that was what jesus meant by FDS-
the wt will say
see they RAN AHEAD OF THE ORG if they had waited they would still be in the org ,with god favor and this new light- it was not time for jah toreveal this info
like moses who killed the duded and had to flee, it was NOT TIME FOR DELIVERANCE-
for those who are keen observers of wt- we already see the ground work is in place and it just amatter of timing
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JT
Right on again XQ. The Watch Tower's only devise is conceptualization and unchallenged acceptance. The dates don't matter in the least because whatever the Watch Tower Corporation prints or says is enforced with the threat of shunning. It's the enforcement that becomes important in a closed society.
########bottom line--
changes have very little affect on jw due to the conditioning they get- think about it, from the day a person starts to study they are conditioned to EXPECT AND LOOK FOR CHANGE,so when it happens they can say new light
how many jw do you know are disappointed if NOTHING NEW is either released or some new deep point is discussed-
the problem is a jw fails to connect the changes with - this is your flag something is wrong with this religion
i find that too many former jw want to believe that "If the society does so and so or says so and so," some mass exodus of jw will take place-
to beleive that is to not understand the slow conditioning that wt has done to the way a jw thinks
as has been stated, we could have a video of the gb having and Orgy and there would be some jw who would swear out the tape was Doctored up
with child abuse, UN relationship, flip flop in dogma, etc with all this info, the avg jw when first presented with it goes straight into denial mode- we see it here all the time, facts proof, evidence, etc mean very little to a devote believer
i posted a link to a site that makes some interesting statements about why it is so hard to convince a believer when you have proof, facts and documentation
it makes for interesting reading
when i first read it awhile back it helped me to finaly uinderstand why it is so hard to talk and reason with a person involved in a High Control group
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JT
There will be loyal braindead dubbies no matter what. We all have the evidence of that. When I was in I had no idea what all that crap meant anyway. I just followed the rules because of threats of DFing and Armageddon.
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excellent point
in fact unlike wen many of us came in you had to explain the 7times, the gentile times do the math from 607 to 1914, ect
today the publication that they study with folks out of DOES NOT EVEN COVER CHRONOLGY
in the old days you had to know it to be considered a Mature jw- most didn't understand it less alone explain it to others
they JUST ACCEPTED IT like most jw do with everything else coming from patterson
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JT
I never had doctrinal issues with the org, I was content to be a follower and a good publisher (book pusher). To me, a typical JW is a person who just accepts things and doesn't question anything. Their ability to reason has declined because they are forced to face a mediocre teaching vehicle, a spiritual standard that employs double-standards. Some have to endure judgement while others get away with everything because Jehovah will correct things in his own due time. Your faith is challenged by the acceptance of these things. Where is the wisdom? I guess the answer will always be, wherever you choose to see it.
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i think this poster puts it in a nice nutshell- the avg jw today esp is so poor equiped to even defend bad dogmas it aint even funny
i recall growing up old pioneers who would whip the hell out of folks on hell, jehovah name, christmas, etc
today the avg publisher esp in the usa has not had a challenge at the door in years, hell the avg pub hasn't had a door open up in years
we used to work apt on sat am, - 500 cars in the lot and we would leave at noon with 498 NOT AT HOMES- SMILE