A Very Sad Shell-Shocking Day

by Amazing1914 45 Replies latest jw friends

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    Jim, I know your pain at hearing this. In 1988 an ex-elder and his wife were instrumental in helping us out. They invited us to the church we've attended ever since, and gave us a lot of support. A few years ago they stopped going to church, then stopped returning our phone calls. Eventually we heard through the grapevine that they'd gone back. I don't understand how they could do that, perhaps they will come back out. I think it is very possible that your friends will find that they are not happy back in and will come out yet again. We can hope. But the decision is theirs.

    I do believe that we should try to be responsible on these boards and not play into what the WTBS says about those that have left. There are plenty of other places on the net to talk dirty or have food fights or whatever. I'm just saying that before we hit the "post" button we might want to think about the effect we will have on lurkers. And yes, I've said I few things I shouldn't have.

  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu

    Jim, don't take the blame for this. You've helped many people in the past, including me. I read your story about your exit out of the WTS more than once, and it really touched me. I can't help but wonder how many more people it has helped.

    You can't win them all, but if you're winning more than you're losing, I'd say keep going! If you look at the big picture, this is a minor setback compared to all the victories.

  • seven006
    seven006

    Jim,

    You talk like you are somewhat responsible for their decision. You are not. No more than they are fully responsible for you coming to a conclusion on your belief system. If we as exJW's had to agree to think the same exact way and post the same exact way, we would be no different from the cult we all left. Even though I agree to a certain extent that things said on discussion boards are out of line, I would rather a person have the freedom to be, or think, out of unreasonable controlled boundaries than to suffocate within them.

    No matter what an exJW (apostate) says or does, it will go against the close minded safety level of someone who still clings on to the religion or even the basic elements of the JW religion. Calling god jehovah, linking your concept of jesus to that concept of jehovah and alike. Even though you have discovered the corruption of the company that sold you the jehovah product, you still cling on to the product. You, like them, could possibly be in a spiritual fog and cannot see the road from the bridge.

    You maintain some ability to better define your similarities and differences between the concept of jehovah and no jehovah's witnesses then they do. You can better over look the anger exJW's have because of their many losses due to the cult. Your friends cannot. They still cling to the hard wired concepts of the whole twisted "thinking" of the cult and only have had a few problems with some of the "actions" of the cult. They return to the perceived safety of what they know as opposed to try and understand and live with elements of the unknown.

    They, and somewhat you, are like an alcoholic. Alcoholics are told, after acknowledging their problem/desease, identifying the reason they are an alcoholic, and deciding to change, stay away from alcohol, period! Many alcoholics justify in their minds that non alcoholic beer is safe because it only has a minute level of alcohol. They like the feeling of being social with other drinkers but feel safe because of the label "non alcoholic." They are only fooling themselves. Like any person addicted to any substance, action or passion, as long as you have elements of, or situations containing any part of the thing they are addicted to, they will most likely go back to full participation in the addiction. Given what you have said describing the mindset of your friends, I am not shocked or surprised they went back at all. In essence, they never really left.

    False sense of security can be an addiction. Religion to most religious people is their largest sense of security. Ask any woman who has continually gone back to an abusive husband or relationship why they do it. They develop a false sense of security and feel safer with their known abuser then they do in the unknown freedom of uncertainty and self reliance. Your friends MAY feel safer in the arms of the abusive cult they know, because they clung onto the elements of that cult after they momentarily saw the true abusive nature of it. To insecure people, abuse feeds that insecurity and the abuser becomes their warped version and false sense of their own security.

    You and I have talked on the phone, you know my views on all of this. I have also been out of the religion for over 20 years and have been on and helped administrate, several exJW discussion boards. I have seen more confession and more pain experienced by those who cling to the basic elements of the JW religion's product like still referring to god as the old jewish version jehovah, than those who have either left it all behind or adjusted their thoughts more in line with mainstream christanity. As the old karate master in the movie Karate kid said, walk right side of road, safe, walk left side of road, safe, walk middle of road, SQUISH!

    These are just some of my thoughts. Take care and hope you don't get too depressed over this, it is not your fault.

    Dave

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    It's a sad story, true; but, for God's sake, let's not fall back into the "stumbling" and "good testimony" crap. We of all know what it is worth, wherever it is.

    We're not a better organization because we're not an organization and we are not better.

    Anger, resentment, silliness or even plain insanity are part of the xJW world, as well as a host of wonderful qualities. It's just reality. And screening reality from people never helps in the long run.

  • cyber-sista
    cyber-sista

    Sadly, they make some fair comment about the behavior of many ex-JWs. Although, they also misrepresented my positions to my own face. They know better than that, because I have never turned away from Jehovah, Jesus, or the Christian faith. I simply do not accept the twisted version of who Jehovah is that is promoted by the Watchtower. Nonetheless, the behavior and words of many ex-JWs and a number of ex-JW web sites had a share in causing them to return to the Watchtower Society.

    Amazing...It is hard to imagine anyone returning to the Org after coming out of it. I have learned that the WT and other cult like religions can be likened to an addiction. Sometimes we may get away from it, but the addiction is still there. Some replace it with another addiction or like an alcoholic who truly never recovers may at times find the desire for alcohol so strong that he goes back to drinking. If we have a loved one who is an alcoholic there is nobody to blame for it when they go back to their drinking.

    I think that the majority of people who have been involved with the WT can easily recognize when there are things said about Jws that are not true. Sad to say the religion is bizarre and twisted enough that many bizarre and twisted things have happened to so many of us that we do become broken in many ways. Many of us end up angry and grieving in many ways and need a place to go and vent out our true thoughts and emotions--this is something the WT never allowed us to do. There is far more good done by this than harm. If someone returns to the WT, because they say they don't like what the X-JWs are doing, they aren't recognizing that there are people out there who still hurting and processing through their WT experience. The way I see it is if someone makes this an excuse for their returning to the WT it is like an alcoholic blamimg someone for their return to being an alcoholic.

    I am sorry though that you are sad over your friends. There is a good chance they could leave again. They know much now and the bells will be going off for them at the first sign that something is wrong in the Org and I'll bet it won't be too long before that happens.

    The best to you,

    cybs

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Jim,

    There is without doubt, an unhealthy level of toxicity in the lives of many XJW's, especially those who have been out of the WTS a long time but seem to be unable to find a meaningful life outside of WTS / XJW issues and companions. I actually wonder whether the emotional strings attached and embedded by the WTS are not still present in some way in many. A constant diet of bashing everything remotely WTS shaped is not an indication that the cult has been removed from the boy.

    Especially dangerous I have found are those who freely admit to having little interest in WTS issues at all and yet have grown cynical in their attitude toward those newly exiting, feeling it is their duty to teach them how to be 'free'. They cause more emotional damage than they would like to admit to and often make the WTS look like saints in comparison.

    However, we as XJW's come from an environment where everything was sanitized and monitored. From our clothing, our musical tastes, our choice of companions, we ?watched how we talked, and watched how we walked". We were even instructed as to when to smile when we approached people in the 'preaching work'. Leaving such an environment and learning how to interact socially is sometimes not a pretty sight, as can be seen in some of what goes on these XJW discussion Boards. It comes with the territory and people need to realize that what actually happens to many JW's is that they become what they truly are for the first time ever.

    Do I believe that some people are better off functioning within the WTS cult than being adrift in a huge and confusing ocean? This is a tough question but I think that probably *some* are, but what is of paramount importance is that they have a *choice* over the matter. A choice that is unfettered by coercion, manipulation and lies. It seems your friends made this choice second time around of their own volition and I wish them every happiness. There are worse things than being a JW where at least some semblance of structure and social support is on offer.

    I think I have already related the experience of the First Nations woman that I knew who became a JW before? Abused from childhood, addicted to drugs at twelve, selling herself for two dollars to anybody her father felt could afford it, she came into contact with the JW?s who helped take care of her. They taught her how to read and function in the day to day. She is now very happily married with two children whom she adores. She, for example is imho better off as a JW than not, though she may eventually see things differently one day.

    Best regards - HS

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    These people are emotionally deficient freaks. Notice that they went back as a couple. They are unhealthy in every way imaginable, and they did not do the hard thinking and introspection it takes (notice they took the opportunity to criticize others) to become healthy after leaving the borg. Junkies for Jesus are still just junkies, afterall.

    They have my pity, if it's any consolation, but they certainly don't have one wit of my respect.

  • TonyT
    TonyT

    Jim,

    I am sorry about the pain that you are feeling in your friend's decision to return to the org. The wealth of information found on this and many other sites make it difficult to understand their decision. I cannot imagine any experiences with ex-jws that would convince me that leaving the org had been a mistake.

    Over the past 2 years I have found your posts to be among the most interesting and informative on this board and I was disappointed when the wealth of information on your removed posts was not restored. Many individuals struggling with their faith would benefit from your experiences.

  • gumby
    gumby
    Nonetheless, the behavior and words of many ex-JWs and a number of ex-JW web sites had a share in causing them to return to the Watchtower Society.

    They've been out of the Organisation for 20 years, helped you out of the Organisation, and now they've decided to go back and you feel bad because the nasty people on the internet pushed them back in? Please! If your friends emotionally status is so weak that they can convince themselves of the WTBTS is the truth AFTER learning it isn't, I sure wouldn't put the blame on ex-witnesses and their behavior on the internet. People like them will do what they regardless if their babysat their whole life.

    Sorry for sounding callous Jim, I don't mean to be.....but in their case I feel the ex-witnesses on the net had little to do with their actions. Their "true believers".

    Gumby

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    Amazing, That is a bad guilt trip they have pinned to you. Nevertheless, whatever they choose to do, is what they choose to do !

    I have to agree with some others comments, there may have been something about the JW's that they could not leave behind, but, rather than 'bad mouth' them, I say give them the benefit of the doubt that it was best for...them.

    For instance, did they have family that was shunning them ? Could it be that that horrible never-ending, blood draining cancer...simply ate away at them? To where it colored their emotions so much...they collapsed?

    Maybe they simply believe it ? I would be disappointed, but, still who am I to say it's not best for them?

    One of the things that's really different in my life as an X-JW is, I look at people (I hope), more as individuals than as a group, where all people in that group...must be a 'certain' way. Like Catholics, Muslims, Japanese, Americans, British or gays or lesbians, Republicans or Democrats, Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons...on and on... One common human trait is to lump ALL the people in any group as being ALL the same...and they are not. JW's are especially bad about 'grouping' people, all most ALL people, that aren't witnesses, are grouped and then judged.

    I know that's the way I was taught and now, I'm constantly trying to fight that JW inclination.

    You are not responsible for them. Like Franz said, "They are victims of victims."

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