by frankiespeakin 47 Replies latest jw friends
Frankie:
I think that the "love" that you seem to be alluding to can be found in relationships and perhaps "feels" like that which is normally associated as being between partners, but it isn't that latter kind of love.
I still tend to do the greek thing, in categorising love, to which end I would ask if you're driving at the "agape" love of which the WTS has little conception?
frankie,
The symbolical use we put to the word love is full of paradox. I think we can better understand it thru negation.
If you could elaborate on that, I'm interested to see if you have a very different way of looking at it than me.
While waiting for your comment, here's my take on it: one of the challenges in a relationship that I think JTP was talking about is that showing unconditional love in a relationship is hard to accomplish. To love unconditionally we also have to be aware that WE are just as important in the relatinship as the other person is. This inevitably leads to differences of opinion, which can be misconstrued by either party as the other not truly loving them.
Not having all the good things..... (and from my observation, in a relationship where both parties are aware of what unconditional love is, they have enough good times that they do miss those good times) leads to the couple getting over it quickly or getting back together and the love grows stronger.
Does that make sense? It's my impression of what you mean about how negation makes us realize what true love is. I tried, anyway.
Brad
I think this is correct to say:
In order to display "real love" all selfish desire must be gone.
All comparison must stop, we can not show any favoritism or partiality,,which mean we love a spider,,snake, rock or human person equally.
We can't describe it except thru negation, IOW,, love is "not" this or that as in love is "not" partial,,love is "not" judgemental,, love is "not" jealousy,, love is "not" etc... When we strip away all the things love is "not" we are left with,, IMO,, a pristine love,,untainted by a human mind's preconcieved thoughts as to what love is.
Form,
To love unconditionally we also have to be aware that WE are just as important in the relatinship as the other person is. This inevitably leads to differences of opinion, which can be misconstrued by either party as the other not truly loving them.
I agree that love can not be partial as you stated above. In order to do that we would have to view ourselves as just as important as the other person (no more and no less important), or else we would be impartial.
As you bring out differences of opinion lead to conflict,,and that is because there is no real love,, just attachment,,possesiveness,, and seeking satisfaction of desires. Real love is "not" seeking personal satisfaction,, "not" being possesive,,"not" seeking attachment to combat our loneliness.
Every idea placed into words via thought, speech or writing, is abstract; and not the reality we seek. No where is this more apparent than when we discuss the deeper things like: Truth, Life, Love, or God. Strange thing is, all these words are synonymously pointing to the same Reality.
We can not know "LOVE" as a thing separate which can be held in the hand, observed, and described, because in actuality that which is looking -- is Love.
It can be realized that ALL separation is illusion. Separation, the fragmentation into separate distinct things, is a trick of the mind that may be helpful in day to day practicalities. However, it is but a shallow surface mirage, which does not effect the actual underlying Oneness of all. If and when there is an investigation deep within our own sense of Being, the actuality of this can be clearly and undeniably seen.
Then, when Consciousness looks out those eyes and clearly sees and embraces only Itself, then you will know what true and unconditional LOVE is, and you will know it as your own Self.
This can not be described; it can only be lived. There simply needs to be a seeing beyond the surface (which the mind so expertly creates), deeper into what is looking.
Everything just said here is meaningless and without value; because, you, are the Meaning and the Treasure. Not who you believe yourself to be, but rather Who -- you really are.
j
LT,
Frankie:I think that the "love" that you seem to be alluding to can be found in relationships and perhaps "feels" like that which is normally associated as being between partners, but it isn't that latter kind of love.
I'm having a hard time understanding what you wrote above,, and think you may not have understood me.
Let me rephase what you wrotet,, and you tell me if I have have understood you correctly. You are saying: love is a feeling like that which is experienced between partners (romantically,,??). These things are so subtle and easy to misunderstand some one. So correct me if I'm wrong.
I still tend to do the greek thing, in categorising love, to which end I would ask if you're driving at the "agape" love of which the WTS has little conception?
I'm not sure about greek,, I have so little comprehension about the language, as to whether I am discribing "agape" or not. What I am discribing is a absolute or real love,,without any contamination from selfishness and impartiality.
God is love . Jesus is described as having the greatest love of all by giving his life in sacrifice for all mankind .
Love between a man and woman has conflict
And hormones! That's that feeling of "falling" or "being" in love. Not love at all, but the chemistry for procreation.
Real love is a verb. It requires action, and therefore not a passive thing. It is action without consideration for one's self, or self gain. It is acceptance and tolerance. The declaration of love requires followup. Walking the talk.
There is an incredible book out there on what love is called The Greatest Thing in the World by Henry Drummond written in the 1880s based on 1Cor section on Love.
I love my spousal unit Kevan. I trust him, I value him, I respect him. I accept and admire the things in him that often drive me nuts (he's an anal organizer and I'm a slob). I have learned to do things that reinforce my respect for him, like keep the kitchen cleaner and process the cat food cans and dishes immediately in the morning (when I'm not mentally functional) instead of leaving them in the sink all day.
Yes, we occasionally argue. It's human. We also walk away, and it doesn't usually get in the way of how we generally act toward each other. We also see a relationship counselor 2-3x per year. It's necessary for our sanity as a couple, and a good time to get mediation on a problem that has surfaced and we're unable to resolve by ourselves.
Unconditional love is extremely difficult to achieve. It is up there with perfektion. You can glimpse it. Sometimes achieve it for a fleeting moment. However, it cannot be sustained. The best we can do is to continue to apply ourselves to it with small, unconditional tasks: giving a dollar (maybe our last one) to the bum on the street because they need it more than we do, even if they are just gonna buy Wild Turkey. Picking up garbage on the sidewalk. Plugging someones parking meter that has run out (illegal but loving). Smiling when you feel like crap.
Hugs and love and peace
Brenda
Heat,
God is love . Jesus is described as having the greatest love of all by giving his life in sacrifice for all mankind
If God is completely unselfish love he would not require his son to die for people sins. He would not take offence. And if God were impartial love he would not require faith in order for a person to get everlasting life he would just give it to them period.
Brenda,
Unconditional love is extremely difficult to achieve. It is up there with perfektion. You can glimpse it. Sometimes achieve it for a fleeting moment. However, it cannot be sustained.
This not the love I'm talking about,,that "unconditional love" can not be a force of will because if it is a force of will it is not love,,love is not something you force against your will that would simply be an imatation but not real.
Love is not restraint.
Love is not forced by will.
