Hi Sabrina,
:: From what I've read of this thread up to now, it seems to me that you and Norm (I think you're referring to him; correct me if I'm wrong) actually do agree that Christianity is basically intolerant.
: No! I do not. Where did you get such an idea?
Well, like I said before, you said that Jesus taught essentially that Christianity is the only true religion, and Norm said he agreed with that, and in an earlier post I quoted a number of scriptures that confirmed that unbelievers are to suffer a fiery judgment, and it's a no-brainer that a religion that teaches that non-believers will be killed by the religion's God is by definition intolerant, and I had the impression that you agree with what the scriptures say. The conclusion, therefore, is obvious.
Now, if my conclusion is wrong, do point out which of the above statements is incorrect, or why, taken together, they allow of a different conclusion.
: If you like to paint everyone with the same brush that is your sad problem.
I have painted no one with any brushes save those with which they have painted themselves. E.g., calling a Christian a Christian.
: No, I do not believe Christianity is basically intolerant.
My, my. You disagree with the scriptures?
: As I posted to Norm there are good and bad in every religion, Christianity included.
Yes, but not everyone who professes to follow a religion does so. For example, some Christians have no problem with disobeying the scriptures and killing other people. Some Christians are tolerant of other belief systems, despite what the scriptures say.
Do you not know that the same God who said these things:
I am Jehovah your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. You must not have any other gods against my face.
You must not prostrate yourself to another god, because Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, he is a jealous God.
is an intolerant God? Do you not understand that a God who names himself "Jealous" is by his own admission intolerant? Do you not know that the same God who said these things is the same God as Christians worship?
: If you want to invent your own assumptions go right ahead
I'm only quoting scripture, dear.
: but I do not believe Christianity is basically intolerant.
Well then! Let's hear your explanation of the Jealous God!
: Good Golly Miss Molly! You haven't read a word I've written! But so what, it matters not.
Of course I have! That's what I've been responding to!
:: I'm sure that we all agree that a religion that teaches that people who don't go along with it will be killed by its God is inherently intolerant.
: Uh, excuse me but Simon I think does not allow the language that I believe your statement deserves. So I will improvise...
Oh come now! Simon can be understanding when pressed. Or perhaps obscene jesting is something you prefer to eschew.
: AlanF, when you use the words WE and ALL be certain whom you are addressing otherwise what you say may be regarded by some as, to put it very politely, Bull Shit!
Whoa, Nelly! I believe that you've just proved my point. Since you couldn't directly deny a conclusion that is blatantly obvious, you've resorted to standard old Christian intolerance!
Alternatively, do you think that a religion that teaches that people who don't go along with it will be killed by its God is inherently tolerant? Or do you take the Fifth?
: Look, believe whatever you want but do not attempt to speak for everyone. Or are you now the great GB of this board?
I'm merely making an obvious conclusion that follows inevitably from the stated premises.
:: If not, then the definition of intolerance means nothing. Norm stated that Christianity is like that, and you agreed by saying that Jesus pointed "the way, the only way". So it's possible to find agreement after all.
: Uhh.... yeah, whatever AlanF.
You may not like the fact that you and Norm and I agree on this, but your alternative is to deny the scriptures. Take your pick.
: Hey if like Norm you require people to kiss up and say you're right I'm cool with that...
Well, I don't require it, but I don't mind it too much.
: ..Hey AlanF, you got a point there wow what a splendid rebuttal and so coherent too! Thanks man, nobody like you ever!
I think you're getting emotional now, Sabrina. Calm down, dear. This is only a discussion board, after all.
:: I'm certainly not going to dignify the ludicrous ideas of young-earth creationism by verbally 'allowing' that its adherents have every right to believe what they want.
: I never brought up that subject.
Of course you didn't. I did, in order to illustrate a point. A point which, in your highly emotional state, seem to have missed.
:: They do have that right in a free society, of course, but not to be free from criticism.
: As I have repeatedly said ad nauseam it is not criticism that rankles but ridicule.
A great many people haven't the sense to distinguish criticism from ridicule. Nevertheless, I will ridicule ridiculous beliefs such as flat-earthism, astrology and young-earth creationism as I see fit, if their adherents attempt to justify their ridiculous beliefs. If you don't like that, I must ask you: Are you one of those people who think all beliefs are equally valid?
: My god what a wall! Oh...sorry, Norm's posting style rubs off easily.
Not a problem! I like Norm's style sometimes, and it suits you!
:: And I'm not going to verbally allow that JWs have much dignity of mind and conscience when I know perfectly well what kind of mind control they're subjected to and how that affects their ability to reason, and even to recognize the truth when they see it.
: Uh....huh.
So, how does your answer fit in with the above discussion?
:: So why should I not be consistent in everything else that comes up for discussion on this board?
: Yep, I see your point.
I don't think you do, dear.
: If one is going to mow over some it is only proper that he mow over everyone. True logic there. Have to commend you!
Good deal! No partiality here!
Problem is, dear, I haven't done any "mowing" except logically. I've been very careful to maintain my cool. At least, I hope so!
: There's a line from an Austin Powers movie that goes something like this: "There are two things I hate in this world. People who have no respect for other peoples cultures.....and the Dutch!"
I hate those, and a few other things, too!
: Your repeated declarations of disdain towards those who are in some way not to your liking such as believers in astrology
Are you saying that you think astrology should be given respect? Horrors! What kind of Christian are you? Do you not know that astrology had its origins in the Great Whore of Babylon?
: or Christians
I only disdain Christians who loudly proclaim that they're giving solid answers to hard questions when all they're doing is blowing wind.
: or whomever else in your heart you disdain is sad, very sad.
So you would give equal respect to flat-earthism, astrology, Christianity, young-earth creationism, Mormonism, Scientology, the Moonies, etc.? My, my!
: Because when you cannot see beyond a label and recognize that individuals are dynamic and are not all easily fitted into a box and that maybe just maybe not everything they believe in may be a crock;
That's a bit of a truism, to be sure, but it's far too general to apply here. We're talking about specific beliefs like astrology. Don't you think that people who plan their every move by a horoscope is a nut?
: you segregate yourself just as much as the JWs do.
What?
: AlanF, you believe in your own religion, the religion of your own opinion.
No, dear. Religions these days are sources of income to their founders.
: And since you believe that when it comes to Christanity and other belief systems your opinion is the only right one
How ever did you conclude that? Certainly not by anything I've written. On the contrary, I've repeatedly made clear that if solid evidence is brought forth, I will change my opinion.
You seem to think that, somewhere in this thread, solid evidence has been presented, which I have proceeded to reject. It has not.
: then that means that by your own definition you yourself are intolerant.
Precisely, dear! Intolerant of ridiculous beliefs.
: But hey, no big deal. I've become intolerant myself.
Become? But isn't that a requirement for all true Christians, according to the scriptures I've presented?
: I've become intolerant of people who actually believe they are superior to others and who believe they alone know truth and the only truth. I've become intolerant of you and Norm.
How you can conclude that is a mystery. But you also have concluded that the scriptures teach tolerance for other religions.
: Everyone, everyone on this planet has the right to their own conscience and their own religious or non-religious beliefs. Everyone also has the right to be respected as an individual.
I agree.
: You said yourself you do not respect people who believe in astrology, you called it clap trap.
Once again, dear: do you claim that astrology is not clap trap?
: Fortunately, AlanF few in this world really care who or what you respect.
Whether that opinion is true or not is of no import. What is important is what is true in the important questions of life, and what has evidence to back it up. Those who believe ridiculous things often hurt themselves and others. Do you not agree? If you do, then you have no business taking issue with people who are not afraid to criticize or even ridicule ridiculous beliefs. And as a claimed Christian, you really ought to try to argue so as to convince intelligent listeners. Wasn't it the apostle Paul who said something like, "when in Rome, speak as a Roman"?
AlanF
