Urgent! Need help - I told my parents. (page 3)

filip

btw, why arent my topic being shown uder the "friends" category where I posted it? It is only being showed on the front page under "newest topics".

filip

whats going on? I dont think today is my postingday lol

congratulations on your courage! that took a lot to be honest with your parents. i'm sure they are hoping that studying with this brother will "turn you around", and i'm sure they are all talking about you and the best way to get you away from "evil apostates", because they really believe it is Satan. if you do decide to take them up on their "3 month" offer , i hope you still do some research on your own so that you can make a fully informed decision. stay strong!

Incense_and_Peppermints

btw, why arent this topic being shown under "frinds" category where I posted it? Its only being shown at the front page under "newest topic".

p.s. i don't know why that happens, but many times i see posts in the Active Topics or the Welcome page, but they don't appear in the Friends page, for example... but your topic says "Friends" under "Subject", so it's there... you just can't see it. take care.

Sunspot

** Then they say: "Yes, thats true, but how can their religion be true when they are going to war? Look at JWs, they are the only religion in the world that doesnt go to war."

I don't think that they're the ONLY religion that doesn't go to war----but Jesus had said where two or three are gathered together in MY name, there I am (paraphrasing again) so if a group of people get together in a small church in east cupcake and don't believe in war---does that make THEM the "truth"? It's a very lame reason for trusting in the WTS.

**"Look at everything around us. Look at the sandwich you have just made. Who made it? You! Do you think that the sandwich could have made itself?" I answer no. "Well then, do you think then that the universe, which is so much more complex than a sandwich, can have made itself? NO! thats a proof for GOD."

Yeah, so that proves to them that God made the sandwich----THAT doesn't mean that the WTS is THE only religion approved by him does it? Another lame excuse JWs throw out at you.

**Or: they mentioned a prophecy about the destruction of Babylon. That prophecie came in year 700 or something before Christ, and the destruction came 300 years AFTER christ. And they said that it was proven scientifically that the scriptures are 2700 years old. Now what can I say to that?

Honestly, I *never* got the historic stuff, even after 30 years as a JW---I hated history in high school and when it comes to dates my eyes glaze over. I found that the *present* lies and inconsistencies were more than enough to convince *me* that I had been living a lie. I didn't believe it at first (BIGTIME denial on my part) but the more I researched-the more it became apparent and obvious to me that the WTS "reasoning" was a steaming pile of BS.

**Generally under the whole "chat" I couldnt defend myself at ALL. When they asked me what the exact things to WHY I dont believe was, I couldnt answer, because I dont really know. The reason why I dont believe is a lot of different, small as big things, and I couldnt describe my feelings... so all my arguments just dropped dead.

I know the feeling well! It IS hard to put your doubts out there when emotions and other's feelings are involved! Sit down and put your doubts on paper and narrow the points down that you'd like to make. Sometimes it gets flakey when things are too "general" to spear in on.

Also putting them on paper will help you "see" them more clearly and will help you to recall them on the spur of the moment as needed.

We all have our particular pet peeves with WTS teachings---something that will make my blood pressure go up-won't have much meaning as another point by someone else. What I wrote above was just a few that set MY teeth on edge as I was discovering all the sides of the weasel-worded WTS. They were just general examples that you may want to think about (and question!)

Hope this helps a bit,

hugs,

Annie

JamesThomas

Dear Filip,

It's understandable that you are very confused right now, with all the conflicting thoughts in your head. You know, it's OK not to know. It's OK to not have any concrete beliefs. Give yourself time and space. Hopefully your parents will provide this as well, if you ask for it.

I suggest getting out into nature when you can, and hike about and relax there. See what it's like just being silently present with life, and not knowing. You may notice that what touches you the most and fills you with wonder and beauty is really not knowable and in fact felt the deepest when there are no interpretive thoughts in your head at all. Poets may attempt to capture what one feels when serenaded by dancing leaves in the wind, or explain the depths of a liquid water color sunset, but no matter how beautiful their words and descriptions -- it's not it.

The most significant moments, the actual aliveness of life, is not knowable; and when we try to grasp it, it slips through our fingers.

Be kind to yourself and allow yourself not to know.

If there is a God, allow it to reveal itself to you, through the invitation and open space of not knowing.

j

under74

"That's false. Do a little research, you'll find other groups that refuse to fight. The term "conscientious objector" wasn't made up by or for Jehovah's Witnesses. The Amish won't go to war, I believe. Poke around on the net, see what you can find."

Just to toss in a few other religions that won't go to war:

Anabaptist churches-
Quakers
Mennonites
Hutterites
Amish (as stated by Almost atheist)

Seventh Day Adventists

Some Methodists will not serve in military either in 1934 there was a court case (Hamilton V. REGENTS OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIF.where young methodist men sued the university for forcing them to enter military tactics classes.

There are tons of other religions and sects that refuse to do military service.

BluesBrother

When one has spent a lifetime in the Org , as we have , then it is very hard to break the mold of thinking. Congratulations for so doing.

Dubs always sound convincing when allowed to argue on their own ground . I have had the same experience in family debates. Of course it all sounds so logical , the way they say it .. But when one goes and thinks again , the cracks in their faulty logic are still there..

For me, I cannot get past the basic question. If God was willing to spare Sodom if 10 righteuos men could be found, how can anyone believe that millions of ordinary folk are going to get slaughtered? it is just not right, not godly, our father would never do it. It has got to be a wrong belief.

The end has been forecast in 1914, 1925, 1975(maybe) and we are still here , 90 years after 1914 ! ..They are just wrong again . Would the Holy Spirit really lead the F & D S this way ?

Ther is plenty of dirt in their history too from early presidents up to the UN Scandal, again , not the requirement of a Spirit Led Organisation.

Despite the neat arguments they put up, you have to get them off their base and considering other things.....Good luck!

The JellyBaby

A lot of all the history topics are very complicated, so the JW's that know that stuff well, have a tendancy to bombard those less educated or academicaly able with all the calculations, and the 'so that means that' implications. I couldnt see it myself for years, but just nodded. I had a study for ages to learn the Daniel prophecy stuff. I got to know it off by heart, but it really meant nothing to me. To others though, they were so pleased that I now understood it their way. Today I couldnt explain any of it to you. The point is, they will insist that they have the 'Troof' because of these things, but they only arrive at their conclusions in a way that fits their teachings...There will always be an answer for something, you will never 'prove' them wrong in anything. Just be determined, but not disruptive, and 'ALWAYS' trust your gut instinct.

NewLight2

Quote:
". . . but how can their religion be true when they are going to war? Look at JWs, they are the only religion in the world that doesnt go to war." -- filip
Answer this question with one of your own - like:

Then why in the Hebrew Scriptures does it show that the nation of Israel was a 'warrior nation'? They were always going to war! - Then list some examples from your own research.

Don't limit yourself to using the New World Translation of the Bible either. It is very flawed and biased to the JW dogma.

Bad Translations in the NWT

"The New World Translation of the Bible is Jehovah's Witnesses own translation, no other religious group uses this Bible and Jehovah's Witnesses make very little use of other Bibles."

Here is a list of on-line Bibles that can be used with the Bible Study Outline that I mentioned in another post on this thread.

NewLight2

Urgent! Need help - I told my parents.

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