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frankiespeakin

Delta,

I don't judge my neighbour, a judge also gives out the verdict, I don't do that, only God can do that at the end. But I do know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, and when someone is evil, or taken by evil or open for evil (whatever you want to call it) then this person should be helped, but if he /she doesnt want that then he/she shouldn't be a part of an organization which proclaims good, not evil.

So you beleive in shunning persons not living up to christian morals like say if some one was a practicing homosexuality would you shun that person if they went to your church??

My main job is to make sure people keep it nice on the forum, and things like that. I don't think that wouldn't be allowed. Plus MMORPG's are my backup work, I also work as assistant-manager of a dutch pc-hardware store and i study philosophy. Going to stop working at the end of this year though, whenI have enough money, and start studying theology too though. So I have enough to do, and I don't think any of it is against JW religion.

frankiespeakin,

I didn't say that, and your post strongly suggest that thats the only conclusion that could be drawn from what I said, depsite that your comment bears the form of a question. I said that I know the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, but I never said homosexuality to be something 'good' or 'evil'. I think most forms of homosexuality are neither.

Brummie

Howdy Delta, I'm jumpin aboard a bit late to say Welcome.

Brummie

Narkissos

Hi and welcome Delta20,

From what I gather you seem to have a sentimental bond (nostalgy by proxy, re: your father's former life?) with JWs. But perhaps you don't realise what it is all about.

If you are currently studying philosophy and theology, and enjoying it, my guess is some association with JWs won't harm you too much: you'll quickly realise how shallow and arbitrary the whole thing is. Of course I may be wrong, but if I said "don't walk, run!" that wouldn't stop you, would it?

You mentioned Augustine. There's a sentence from him in the Confessions which helped me a lot when I left the JWs. Speaking about manicheism he said:

Therefore, my anxiety as to what I could retain as certain gnawed
all the more sharply into my soul, and I felt quite ashamed
because during the long time I had been deluded and deceived by
the [Manichean] promises of certainties, I had, with childish
petulance, prated of so many uncertainties as if they were
certain. That they were falsehoods became apparent to me only
afterward. However, I was certain that they were uncertain and
since I had held them as certainly uncertain I had accused thy
Catholic Church with a blind contentiousness.

You'll soon realise that the JWs don't just claim to be the best religion around (I don't think they are btw). They claim the absolute "truth". I'm sure you already understand how silly such a claim is.

Take care.

TD

Greetings and a (belated) welcome Delta

Although I'm not a JW, I've been happily married to one for 25 years and am therefore, fairly familiar with them.

I have to agree with some of your comments. Regardless of what religion you join, never put your trust in men. Man will always let you down and the truth of any given religion should not be dependent upon the failings of the imperfect men entrusted to run it.

Please note that I said "should" because it is possible for a religion to work itself into a position where the failings of imperfect men do affect its truthfulness. Anytime a person or group claims to be speaking for God, or dispensing truth from God, or acting as God's channel of communiction, or God's modern day prophet or spokesman, then human failings and imperfections do become an issue because God is not imperfect.

Wrong information dispensed by any person or group while acting under the auspices of God's channel of communication reveals the claimant to be a liar does it not?

NewLight2

Jaron,

Are you aware that being a baptized JW means that you will be allowed to study ONLY WT publications when it comes to theology? All other books will be considered 'apostate' and therefore not allowed. If you persist you will be df'ed.

NewLight2

Delta20

First of all, again tnx to everyone who says Hi, and Hi to all of you too! ;)

Narkissos,

Augustine was sure it was unsure because the manicheers were very secretive about their religion and never answered the direct why and how questions (just as evolutionists today, but thats another subject). JW's however do tell why and how, and even explain this very thoroughly. This might be wrong, this might be right, but thats what they do. So I dont think the analogue between those 2 is a success

Furthermore, i believe in an absolute truth. I just dont think anyone knows the absolute truth, but im a realist and i believe it exists, and God knows it. I know the JW's claim the absolute, truth, but thats truth in another sense of the word, namely they mean the truth about religion. And as far as I am concerned they are correct, i.e. Christianity seems to me to hokd the truth, and so far as I have seen they give the best arguments and seem to have the most historical and biblical correct vision and interpretation of the bible.

NewLight2,

I cannot believe that. Surely, I do not know what is it to be a baptized JW, for I am not nor have I been. But I do know this, that JW encourage me to: "Test everything. Hold on to the good" (1 Thes 5:21). This is even a title of one of their publications. If a baptized JW wouldnt be allowed to do research then how would the Watchtower and Awake be made? Especially the Awake is full of research, and arent those JW who read those researches and put them together? So from what I see around me from JW, what you say about them must be incorrect (in general, I dont know your specific situation). An example from my own experience:

When I was 15/16 I went to a few KH meetings, and also had a bit of bible study with JW's (rest of the study comes from self study be me, coz my mo found out about regular bible study and forbid it). But the man who gave me the study was amazing. I am jewish from birth, and went to a jewish school and was teached jewish values. And he never told me to quit that school or anything else, no! Instead he showed me the problems with Judaism by scriptures in the old testament. I was amazed! When I talked about it with my judaism teacher, he was stunned, and he couldnt answer the problems I (actually my JW bible teacher) raised about Judaism. His point argument twas that "If he believed what I said his whole life, all he believed in would implode" but I hardly see that as a valid argument. That you dont like it to be true doesnt mean it isnt. But here you can see how, by studying the bible, I learned that there are problems with Judaism, but I was never discouraged from learning, never!

DevonMcBride

Jaron,

I sent you a Private Message (PM)

frankiespeakin

Delta,

So you still beleive in the war god jehovah of armies. I think Thor would kick his as* big time,, 7 days of the week and twice on sunday.

NewLight2

Jaron,

Your example is b-4 you have been baptized. It ALL changes once you become a BAPTIZED JW. Yes, 'studies' ARE encouraged to question everything - but even they get into trouble for asking the 'wrong' questions. Just ask holly:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/84502/1.ashx

She had been ready to get baptized when she found JWD, too. After reading a number of posts, she had MAJOR questions. So she asked. The above thread is entitled:
'Studies over....................sob............they dont want me..."

Learn from HER example, please Jaron.

NewLight2

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