JW Ben,
i've been reading a few of your past posts.
: Jehovah's Witness use their "free will" to voluntarily come under the "mind control" as set out in the Bible .
i'm breathless with admiration.
pepheuga
watchtower red flags
by Ticker 69 Replies latest jw friends
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JW Ben
Hi Pope,
Yes I can understand where you are comming from. It does seem logical that to be a true religion then there should be no mistakes.
Personally I see two different issues here.
1) when I think of religion I think of doctrin and way of life. For me truth in religion is what is taughtr (or not taught) about God, the universe, why we are here and where are we going, as well as moral code by which to live. What effect does it have on ones life. All these things come under what I see as religous worhpip of a God or dieity For me the Bible best expalins these things, and JWs best explain the Bible on these things.
2) then there are side issused that do not affect the religous issues of worhip. I do not see the aspects of prophecy (their understand of past, present, or future) as having anything to do with worship, but an understanding of Gods timetable.
God never did anything with out warning first. He warned Adam and Eve of the consequeces of taking matters into their own hands. He warned of the flood. Noah preach for many years before the flood to warn his contemperies. The Isrealites were always warned before hand and given a chnce to change etc..
The prophecies relating to the end times are a warning for all mankind. The understanding of finner detail of a prohecy do not change religous worship, but continue to act as a reminder of the prophecy and its ramifications.
So for me any extra detail or modification has nothing to do with religous teaching.
Just going back to the effect a religion has on ones life, many have blamed JWs for having a bad effect, where as I would have to disagree becaise it is not the teachings of JWs but the way some in the group abuse those teachings. This refers to all including elders and others in possitions of responsability as well as those that leave. I speak from personal experience here of being "emotionally abused" by local elders because, they failed to follow instructions as set out in various publications. I have had issue with them not the Org.
A good web site that helped me is homepages.picknowl.com.au/hepburn The information there helped me look past individuals and to see a wider picture.
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JW Ben
Hi Pope, Yes I can understand where you are comming from. It does seem logical that to be a true religion then there should be no mistakes.
Personally I see two different issues here.
1) when I think of religion I think of doctrin and way of life. For me truth in religion is what is taughtr (or not taught) about God, the universe, why we are here and where are we going, as well as moral code by which to live. What effect does it have on ones life. All these things come under what I see as religous worhpip of a God or dieity For me the Bible best expalins these things, and JWs best explain the Bible on these things.
2) then there are side issused that do not affect the religous issues of worhip. I do not see the aspects of prophecy (their understand of past, present, or future) as having anything to do with worship, but an understanding of Gods timetable.
God never did anything with out warning first. He warned Adam and Eve of the consequeces of taking matters into their own hands. He warned of the flood. Noah preach for many years before the flood to warn his contemperies. The Isrealites were always warned before hand and given a chnce to change etc..
The prophecies relating to the end times are a warning for all mankind. The understanding of finner detail of a prohecy do not change religous worship, but continue to act as a reminder of the prophecy and its ramifications.
So for me any extra detail or modification has nothing to do with religous teaching.
Just going back to the effect a religion has on ones life, many have blamed JWs for having a bad effect, where as I would have to disagree becaise it is not the teachings of JWs but the way some in the group abuse those teachings. This refers to all including elders and others in possitions of responsability as well as those that leave. I speak from personal experience here of being "emotionally abused" by local elders because, they failed to follow instructions as set out in various publications. I have had issue with them not the Org.
A good web site that helped me is homepages.picknowl.com.au/hepburn The information there helped me look past individuals and to see a wider picture.
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TMS
It is so simple.
The first few thousands of anointed ones were Jews who apostatized themselves by joining the sect of the Nazerenes.
During the dark ages a few Christians who fought the Trinity teaching and papal indulgences, etc. were anointed.
Finally, in the 19th century the remainder of the heavenly calling were chosen from among a group of serious Bible students largely located in the northeastern United States. The women wore pill box hats and the men were in their "Sunday best." They attended religious conventions where they were taught, among other things to "Advertise, advertise, advertise the King and His Kingdom."
Some of these anointed proved unfaithful and were "lopped off", replaced largely by mentally unstable, egocentric undeserving wackos who had only in recent years become members of Jehovah's Witnesses. Two or three of these were black.
Obviously, this was all God's will.
tms
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stevenyc
JW Ben
Hi, Nice to see you posting here.
I have a question for you. In Deuteronomy 18: 20-22 and Matthew 24:23,24 who do you think is exempt from this?
Steve.
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cruzanheart
I speak from personal experience here of being "emotionally abused" by local elders because, they failed to follow instructions as set out in various publications. I have had issue with them not the Org.
I have BIG issues with the elders who "failed to follow instructions," but I have a bigger problem with the organization that does nothing about said elders. Have any of the elders who emotionally abused you been removed by the Society? I'll bet the answer is NO. If the organization was doing the right thing, they would. What you will really see is that they back up the elders to the hilt -- if someone is disfellowshipped wrongly, how many times does Brooklyn reverse the disfellowshipping? I'll bet NONE. The only time they wash their hands of the elders is when they're confronted in court. Then they disavow all knowledge or authority over what the elders did or didn't do.
Remember this: the early Christian congregation, organized by Jesus' own followers, turned into the Catholic church. If people hadn't stood up and said, hey, this isn't what Jesus taught, we'd all be Catholics today. What makes Jehovah's Witnesses different from Jesus' 12 apostles? Why can't their religion become as corrupt as the first Christian congregation?
And you think there's freedom of thought in the organization? Ask these questions in your congregation and see how much freedom you're allowed.
Hope you stick around -- there's a lot of interesting stuff on this board.
Nina
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unclebruce
G'day Ben,
Long time no see. You make some interesting points bro.
I speak from personal experience here of being "emotionally abused" by local elders because, they failed to follow instructions as set out in various publications. I have had issue with them not the Org.
For a number of years I too stood steadfastly loyal to "the Society" though I was surrounded by Elders not worthy to run a tap. Eventually I came to realise that the WBTS is ultimately responsible for the atmosphere created in every Kingdom Hall on earth. This somewhat mythical beast we call 'the society' is made up of a few puffed up and deluded men. Men who take on the role of Elder are often hard hearted men with little knowledge or no interest in the daily welfare of others.
The society choses men who are this way and encourages it. If you look up the Elders manual or Reasoning book it becomes plain. (for example the reasoning book states that a woman should stick with her unbelieving/abusive husband 'for jehovahs sake'. So Elders council sisters, whose husbands are violent, to stay no matter what - the physical and emotional scars this has caused are not a pretty sight.
Make no mistake, in Watchtower world, the Society is all powerful. If the Society outlawed sociopaths from positions of responsibility there would be none. Why then is the opposite true? Why is practically every congregation is lawded over by such smarmy bullying types? Something smells rotten in JW land does it not.
Loyalty is an admirable thing Ben, and something that kept me relatively sane while in Elizabeth Vale cong. Loyalty to the Society is a great protection for a JW. Elders can say what they will, but if one has caught onto the secret that to be 'loyal to the society' means one is practically untouchable, then one can protect oneself from all sorts Elder bunkum.
But what is "the Society"? Are you sure 'the society' is worthy of your loyalty? What if you found out that the society was just 12 old men? 12 not overly bright men who live in a fishbowl of delusion .. 12 old goldfish slowly swimming arround and arround in a Bethel compound and privately wondering what it would be like to be normal.
cheers, unclebruce
(I still can't handle the word congo .. reminds me of pioneer girls from Salisbury
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Honesty
) You evedently are under a misconception here. Of course JWs are alowed to have their own ideas if they do not agree with the WTS. and they are allowed to talk about it. The Bible shows that the apostles had their own ideas at times. But in time they were corrected. The only time a JW should get into trouble about having his own ideas, is if they try to convince others they are wrong and not the WTS. ( Sometimes a body of elders in a particular congo do not listen to the instructions given and will act when they should not, that is their fault not the WTS .)
Hi JW Ben,
Got any questions that the WT Study questions provided for you by the WT writing committee don't answer for you?
Raise your hand and ask your question during the study and see how immature you will become in record time.
Here is a question for you, Ben. Why is the WTBTS the only ones to ask a question during the study. Look at the scriptures surrounding the qouted one and then ask some questions about them as well.
Do I see a JC if ben starts asking questions not in the study?
15 years of that crap, I did. When I found out about all the flip flops on blood, Men of Sodom being resurrected or not, Bulgaria and the WTBTS, etc. I just wondered if they had lied about the churches of Christendom.
Wake up call, Ben. I am now in a church of Satan's and I get to ask questions right in the middle of the worship service without being looked at as if I'm from mars. Get some answers, too and not just from the platform. Sorta like Christian Freedom in the first century. But, you can only dream about it if you are in the middle of a WT study and need something clarified. When a new person asked a question during the WT study when I was a JW the conductor got red in thye face and smiled. No answer, just smoothly went right to the next parrot with a hand raised.
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PopeOfEruke
JW Ben
I wouldn't have a problem if the JW religion dropped the concept of "only we have the true religion and everyone else is wrong"......Thats where the logic problem arises for me.
IF the Governing Body was simply more humble and acknowledged that Jehovahs' Witnesses are religion on this earth like any other, made up of imperfect humans like every other religion on the planet, we claim no special status as we humbly perform our Christian duty based on our understanding of the scriptures, we make mistakes and correct them as we see fit, and that at the end of the day we let Jesus and Jehovah be the judge, then all problems would simply disappear. Overnight.
We could interact with other, discuss scriptures, freely discuss what used to be published 50 years ago without fear of being labelled apostate, that would be so great.
Why is humility so hard for the Governing Body? They are such the opposite of the Lord Jesus and the example he set.
Pope -
jeanniebeanz
Too True. Thanks.
Jeannie