watchtower red flags

by Ticker 69 Replies latest jw friends

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  Ticker

  Oh yes perfect sence! lmao. Perfect sence for a red flag that says " hey somethings wrong cuz if i dont pretend to totally agree with everything they say even if it lacks biblical support I'll be disfellowshipped." <<--- Me when i used to be a jw. Ive heard witnesses say how they have to stay with the org cuz its the truth. What happened to sticking with god and the bible not men. When they said "where shall we go only you have the sayings of life" they wernt talking about the watchtower, they were referring to Jesus.

  JwBen The hours issue, well ill tell you what. You go out do your 2 hours or whatever and see how people view you in the org. They will judge you as weak and bad association, basically like a a floater in a toilet waiting to be flushed. They either want you on the national average band wagon or you are somehow less godly. I know this is true and it happens, ive been their. How is this an expression of love for the weak, it isnt because thier not spreading the truth, their spreading a publishing empires literature.

  Also you brought up meeting attendance and tried to lump it in with Hebrews at to an obligation from god to attend. First off this is a typical jw responce and its flawed. To no forsake the gathering can be anywhere from 2 people to however many you wish. I see no where where the gathering has to be formal and take place with in the kingdom hall. Did not jesus say i dont dwell in manmade temples, I didnt read about jesus checking his watch cuz he was afraid to miss the watchtower meeting on sunday. He was not forsaking the gathering by being with his 12 apostles and expounding truth from where? THE BIBLE not a watchtower mag at a householders door. Jesus said where two or three are gathered in my name he would be their. So how do they possibly attach this a gods given requirement to be at the orgs meetings, they do it by reading more into the scripture then their actually is and by twisting the overall meaning of it as it is usually out of context.

  Jw ben you need to ask where is your loyallty? With the bible or with an organization because I clearly remember never being allowded to question nothing openly. If you cant ask questions and i dont mean the carrots they give, i mean real questions how will you ever get answers? They dont tolerate freedom of expression or mind and we all know that. To me they paint a picture of freedom of thought as if your really gonna dig through that bible and get answers. Then once they get you conditioned you find out that you are not supposed to dig through the bible, it actually according to the wtbts is soley reserved for the GB and the annointed. To this I say kafleweeee, if the bible aint wrote for me then I dont need it. I believe its their for everyone not a select few as they try to make it seem.

  Also if the society is innocent then ask them about their 2 witness rule for pedophiles and the ngo relations with the un. Oh yah thats right it cant be their fault, somehow a local R & F orchestrated all this up right? lol And of course their key doctrines never change.... oh wait what about the 1914 gereration, 1874, 1914,1925,1975 armageddon dates. Also when i was referring to the annointed being mostly form Pensylvania, this is because Russel originated their with his group of bible students, who supposedly were all annointed, and also brooklyn where the headquarters were moved from pensylvania up until the date of 1935 i believe. Then mysteriously heavens gates were closed but again this lacks any bible support. Dont you think god would have mentioned this cuz its one of the pillars holding up the wtbts, without it they will start tumbling fast and its already pretty wobbly. I just think its very odd and suspicious that most of the numbers of annointed come from theses specific areas, im not saying that they arnt others claiming to be annointed else where in the world, but overall the numbers support my point. But hey maybe that will change cuz everyyear the annointed numbers seem to go up and not down.

  Anyway thats just my opinion, but I know freedom stands not within the watchtower,

  Ticker
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  Ticker

  LOL @ steve2

  Yah i bet he's gonna need some good ol' watchtower pepto bismol to quench that indigestion. Arnt they supposed to be chewing on solid food now though and not the milk or lighter truths. lmao

  JwBen it was good to hear you side of it though, everyone is welcome to their opinion.

  Ticker
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  AK - Jeff

  To Mary, Heart-to heart, Ticker and others;

  I enjoyed all your comments and thoughts. I must say I agree with them, as they make sense to all that have pulled their heads out of their watchtowers and finally seen the light of reality. Thank you, and may God bless.

  To JW BEN -

  I don't know how to say it more succinctly than this; Just try and submitt your own ideas and views on religion, life, morality, what you think the Bible says, at your next watchtower study [It is called a watchtower study - you only get to use the Bible to defend the watchtower opinions]. You may wish to make long and detailed comments on how you have spent time on these 'apostate' sites. I am sure you will get several liberal members of your cong to chime right in agreement. Then let us know how the judicial committee meetings went later that day.

  In short and to the point: You are full of horse $hit if you believe what you have stated here! Let me get my boots!

  Just my opinion

  Jeff
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  pepheuga

  :Just try and submitt your own ideas and views on religion, life, morality, what you think the Bible says, at your next watchtower study

  ah, now that's a line worth remembering. trouble is jeff, the fool would readily swallow hook, line & sinker the "admonition" that the elders would give to him, and would "correct" his "misunderstanding" on the spot without even a word of dissent. tosser.

  pepheuga
• 

  confusedjw

  Witness rules:
  
  #1. . . Treat us as if we never make mistakes.
  
  #2 . . . If we ever make a mistake see rule #1.

  Gary - Perfect. Absolutely perfect.
• 

  upside/down

  ditto

  bttt

  u/d
• 

  kilroy2

  dubber ben,

  First off you state that they are from all over the world, John Barr
  Carey Barber
  Samuel Herd
  Theodore Jaracz
  Steven Lett
  Gerrit Lösch
  Guy Pierce
  Albert Schroeder
  David Splane
  Daniel Sydlik
  This a list of the idiots themselves last I knew.

  So you tell me where they are from, the other problem with what you say is that it is not just the gov. boooby that is supposed to run things, [this is a gov. body idea] it is supposed to be the fts, which is a stretch to even get any thing more than an allegory for the anecdotal story in the bible in the first place. but not one of the "anointed" that is not a gov. booby makes any decisions, If you try to tell me different you need Prozac.

  you have 9 old "never seen a pussy" farts that run the show and 6k left that say they are going to the big white cloud in the sky, but don't get a say in how things are run. The dubbers will say that this is logistics, or I saw a tape that king made once where he said that they get letters from all around the world from anoited that all say the same thing, "ideas of how to direct the work" hahahahaha what a load of shit. how do you check that? You don't. you just believe. like the generation that saw 1914 would be here to see the end of the world. oh wait that aint it any more.

  As far as your point that jehovah does not change, but his dubbletts sure as hell do. you would be DFed for preaching any thing that Russell taught. not one thing is the same. and don't say that 1914 is still in force. cauz it aint. Russell tought that the end of the world was comming in 1914, then when it did not he changed it to 1916, and then died same year. So this beggs the question that if Jesus came to earth, in when was it 1874? no 1914 ok, and saw that Russell was the only one teaching the "truth"? no that aint it. what the hell was Russell doing that hova saw was soooo good and true? sure in hell was not the wheat he was selling. or his ability to keep his wife. so what was it. well we should just let that dog alone.

  As far as dubbletts having the ability to think for them selves, I will bet this months check that there is not one person on this forum that questioned and was not told by a dubber that they were getting into apostate territory. or some other quip, like the elder that told me that there would be many self thinking people at the A or H [how ever you want to spell it] that would die. lol

  dubblett Ben, I know you wont and if you do you will be lying, go and ask an elder, why the dubbs are the only group in the world that date the destruction of the temple. 607 when literally thousands of lines of evidence shows them to be wrong wrong wrong, [could it be that the 1914 date hinges on this misconception?] no that could not be it.

  Why not ask Carl olof jonsson what happens to the people that ask the real questions, not the silly, " so tell me again is it ok to bring a sandwich to the assembly or should we just go with out for a day?"

  as far as jargon, yes dr's and lawyers and engineers have jargon, the difference is that their's means something, the dubbletts is double talk, DO YOU SPEAK THE PURE LANGUAGE, ARE YOU ONE OF THE FRINEDS,DO YOU WANT MEAT IN DUE SEASON,DO YOU APPRECIATE THE TIMELY ARTICLES, BLABLABLABLABLABLA. see Ben, means nothing, just bull shit. you can stack it as high as you like it is bull shit. bull by any other name is still bull.

  Ben people like you are willing to fight and defend the society no matter what crap they spew, you are exactly the kind of person that they love, my grandmother was the same, the dubbers are right because mom and dad said so, or I want them to be because I feel warm and fuzzy when I go to hall,or any other of dozen reasons why cult members believe what they believe.
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  Hondo

  I had a visit by a couple very nice JW's doing their Door-to-door. I listened to the salesman pitch, which was the one about "being in the neighborhood, etc., etc... When they were done I asked them two questions; 1) what do the JW's have to offer that other similar groups don't, and 2) there are probably 10-15 other groups that offer similar plans for salvation; why yours. Again, why should should I listen to their thoughts and ideas and not the 7th Day Aventist, or the Catholics with their 2000 + or - years of history.

  They were somewhat baffled to say the least, but went into their best effort to show me bible quotes justifying JW's as the best (I was not convinced). We talked about past "mistakes" and "predictions" associated with either the society as a whole, or people in the society. The explained that people makes mistakes, then went on and talked about the "new light" theory and how the light gets brighter as time goes. I then told then that if I were to join any organization I would want it to be the purest as possible. I mentioned to them the past failed predictions, the apparent epidemic of child abuse in the JW's, blood policy (suicidal), and flip-flops and doctrinal mistakes, such as organ transplants and immunizations, that probably caused thousands of death between the time they were banned by the society and the time they were allowed. I asked about the "annointed ones", specifically, how many there were now, and how someone knew he or she (are there female annointed ones?) was annointed? Did someone "just know", or did they get a visit from an angel? The could not answer. They knew they were not annointed though.

  All-in-all I enjoyed my time with them. I ended the visit by telling them that I would love to chat with them again sometime, but would probably want to read and study more about society (other than just JW's publications). I told them that it seemed to me that If I someone were thinking about signing up with the JW's, and wanted to feel confident that what was learned in a particular month or year would not change during the next, it would be worth waiting until all the "new light(s)" had reach a point were there were no more "new light(s)", in otherwords, the society and the JW's would be at their purest point. They weren't sure how long the new light concept would be going on. The left with a semi-promise to come back, and, in my opinion, somewhat confused.
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  IP_SEC

  JW Ben:
  Please read from the NWT if you like the context of Jesus parable of the faithful & discreet slave. Please try for a moment to set aside what you've been taught and just focus on the bible. I have a few questions for you:
  Matt 24:32-48

  1. What is the time context for the arrival of the Master? Parousia? Or the day that know one knows AKA Armageddon? Now the WTS tells us that the FDS was re-revealed in 1919, how do you reconcile this with Christ own words?

  2. Where in the bible can you show me that the little flock and other sheep receive different destinies? John 10:16

  And JW Ben you are utterly wrong that we are allowed to have our own views if they differ from the GB's. That's a fact.

  Please?
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  JW Ben

  WHAT A REACTION!!!!

  Hey every one I never expected such a reaction. I have read through all of posts, but at this time i can not answer then all, because there were so many I can't remember what they all said. I am going to save this to disc and go through it again.

  First I want to make it clear on a few points.

  My first and complete loyalty is to my God Jehovah, not to an organisation or any man. My loyalty to the WTS only stretches as far as it complies with Gods word. I try not look at things from a human point of view, I always try to take the human aspect out of the matter and look at the spititual aspect. I can not at this time quote scritpure to back up what I say because I am in my office at work. (I am self employed tax accountant this is my quite time of year)

  I will admit that I am different to most JWs in that I am realistic. I accept that there has been and will be mistakes based on accounts in the Bible of "men of God" making huge mistakes but still being used. please see the web site homepages.picknowl.com.au/hepburn and you will find an essay on the use of organisations that has put things into persepective for me. Unfortunatley there are a lot of JWs that pretend to hang of every word the WTS prints but that is their problem not the WTS.

  Just for your information I am well aware of the UN and Bulgaria stuff ups, and have been scince the news broke. I keep a constant eye out on several anti JW sites. My personal view of that is that the men that are responsable for that will answer for that. The scriptures say that those that have been given more responsability more will be asked back from them.

  Some of you strongly disagree that the WTS want let JWs have their own ideas. I will find matterial that shows that they can. Remember i said that it is OK for a JW to have differing vies as long as they do not try to convince others that they are right. Again that is from personal experiance of talking in groups including elders where we have disscussed various aspects of phrophecy and had different opinion on a matter. No one tried to convince anyone else of their weay of thinking, and it is great to just discuss. The final out come is we juist say "well we eill just have to wait and see."

  As far as asking question during a meeting is concerned that, is not the place. It is not like a lot of churches where you tern up and do not know what the sermon is going to be about. We have all the matterial that the meetings are to cover, and it is personal time to reaserch or ask questions. Questions are encouraged but at a time and place for it. That is why JWs will dicsuss matters and and form opinions.

  It is true that the WTS leaves congrgational matters up to the elders, and I have known of cxasses where elderes here in my cong have had to apploagize for their acctions taken against an individual.

  I have also wittnessed several times whole bodies of elders being stood down and other elders asked to move in to the cong. IT DOES HAPPEN but not as quick as some of us woul like, and I say thank goodness because I would not want the responsability of judging. (if I had that responsabiulty hardly any one including myself would be left)

  Even in the first centry there was the apostle Peter how denied Jesus, spread false sayings, divided a cong, ethincaly but was still used to write parts of the Bible. How would you feel if some one in your cong or church decided to take sides with a certain ethnic group and to exlude others? Most of us would say where is the love? what kind of elder is this? this cant be from God. We are not told in the account if any walked away, but how much better for those that stayed.

  Just as the nation of Israel had its problems and the first centry congs had their problems God still used one organisation at a time to accomplish his will.

  Yes i know that there are problems and as I said I expect them. Any one that belongs to any religion and does nnot expect problems is deluding themselves and that includes JW. It is individual JWs that do not listen to instuctions that can not see that. Unfortunatley that seems to be the majority.

  I have personal issues with individuals and some of the WTS stuff. That is MY problem to deal with. From my experience on the nett and talking to ex JWs, born again christians and a swag of other people I am convinced that the group of people known as JWs are the clossets to the teachings of the Bible that any other group. I do not say that lighty. It may have been 3 years or so scince I participated in this forum but i read and particiopate in others when time allows. As I said earlier i am very realistic about my approach to religion, My eyes are wide open to the faults of individuals and organisations, I do not do things blindly.