bajarama,
Seeker,Why was my questions totally irrelevant and stupid to make in this discussion? You never bothered to explained. Please do so.
Nothing to explain to you -- I wasn't referring to you or anything you said.
Bonn/Kyoto: Bush's stance gets heckled
by philo 53 Replies latest jw friends
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Seeker
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joelbear
America is based on capitalism.
Capitalism is based on the concept of a fiat currency.
The fiat currency has no natural value.
The fiat currency is valued more than natural resources that have natural value.
Fiat value replaces natural value.
Nature or that which has natural value, is usurped and eventually eliminated. -
Englishman
This is quite a hot potato. To be fair to Americans generally the "We saved your ass" types are in the minority, there also a lot more ecological awareness than there was some years ago.
My own beef is with the man Bush himself, he doesn't seem to have any concerns with regard to the value of life itself. Even the Pope bollocked him yesterday.
Bush represents: Executions.
Star Wars.
Pollution.
I certainly wouldn't want to be at the North Pole with that guy if we only had one blanket between us!
Englishman.
..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.
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crossroads
Hey Englishman----Bush isn't so bad how can you get
mad at a guy who's trying to protect the earth from
"Marvin Martian" and his space modulator. The only
thing I'm a little upset with is HE thinks he's smarter
than Bugs himself. What a moroon. -
JanH
And we bailed your asses out twice in two different world wars.
Have you ever opened a history book?
WWI was won by France and Britain with a minimum of American troops and resources. The most important contribution was, according to some German generals the tank, a British invention and production. The participation of the US from 1917 (only after one of their civilian ships were sunk) may have influenced the timing, but certainly not the outcome of the war.
WWII in Europe was won by the allies, and Soviet did 90% of the job. In the Pacific, you did the job because (and only because) you were attacked. Without Japan's suicidal attack on the US, there is no reason to think US would ever have joined the war.
This is historical facts, irrelevant to what you think about present US vs Everyone else discussions.
But it is worth noting that it's conservative Americans who consistently demonstrate that they know nothing about world history, including that of their own country (I still remember the "what happened then?" comments from certain Americans here on the board when I mentioned 1776. Pretty ridiculous!).
PS: Re. Claim that Americans being called out to be "world police". This is something from American politicians and media, and not anything that actually happens. In Balkans, the US provided less of the relative NATO ground forces than they normally would. Sometimes I think it would be sufficient you didn't consistently fan the fires, like you do by e.g. unilaterally supporting the apartheid state of Israel in the Middle East conflicts no matter what it does.
- Jan
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Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911] -
bajarama
Seeker,
I stated,
To all others U.S. bashers,
Who has actually read and understands the treaty and it's true impact, not just the spin that you watch on the evening news?
bajarama
Your reply was,
bajarama,
I'm an American citizen who is proud of his country and appreciates my freedoms. One of my freedoms is freedom of speech, and I use it. Sometimes I use it to praise America, and sometimes I use it to bash America. When it deserves it, I bash America. I have the freedom to do it, I have the right to do it, and I have the obligation to do it as a citizen. Or should I just sit back and let this country go to hell?
As for the Kyoto treaty, of course I have studied it and I know that it is more complex an issue than you hear on the mainstream news. Give me more credit than that. What you don't know is where I stand on the treaty, or global warming, or any of these issues. It isn't what you'd guess. I only jumped in when I saw someone make a statement that was totally irrelevant and stupid to make in this discussion.
Seeker, you must have a selective memory. I then asked you,
Why was my questions totally irrelevant and stupid to make in this discussion? You never bothered to explained. Please do so.
bajarama
Your answer to that quetion was,Nothing to explain to you -- I wasn't referring to you or anything you said.
You were refering to me.
bajarama
socialism sucks
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bajarama
By the amount of U.S. bashing going on in this thread, it seems that most Western Europens would have prefered to become a Soviet satelite nation.
I understand that people from all nations sacrificed much to overcome Nazi, Japanese and the Soviet oppression. But please, grant me this, don't try to rewrite history and say America only had a insignificant part in overcoming Germany in WW2.
I'm sure we would gladly stand up to fight side by side with you again today, as long as it would advance our finacial interests and you promised to feed us McDonalds.
bajarama
socialists suck
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Seeker
You were refering to me.
No, bajarama, I wasn't referring to you. Even the comment of mine that you quoted showed that. In directing a comment to you, I said 'someone', not 'you', made a stupid statement.
I'm not lying to you, not have I forgotten what I said. You have been misunderstanding my words.
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Francois
Lessee, where to start? With Crossroads, first things first. I began reading your response with a great deal of anticipation and then with growing disappointment when I realized that you were quickly descending into an emotional rant.
So then, just a couple of points to prove a point. Churchill was the "only" great leader of the Greatest generation? Have you never heard of De Gaulle? What about Eisenhower? Roosevelt? Douglass MacArthur? And even though he was evil through-and-through, Hitler was one helluva a genius in his twisted evil leadership of his millions of Germans. And he proved much more than a match for your ineffective Stanley Baldwin, and your craven Neville Chamberlain put together.
Um, not to put too fine a point on it, but just because the word "police" is used adjacently does not mean there is some sort of conceptual connection there. Get yourself together and try again.The U.S. is facist? The U.S. is a regime that "exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forceable suppression of opposition."? That's the U.S.? That's the best you can do?
While I respect your right to an opinion, Mr. Crossroads, I am under no obligation to debate such fanciful emotional nonsense as characterizes your entire response. Perhaps some other time, some other topic.
Philo - I don't agree there's ANY objective reality anywhere in the Kyoto Protocols. As noted previously, there is no agreement in the scientific community that global warming is a fact, any more than the "Little Ice Age" presaged any fact of global cooling several hundred years ago. The global warming chicken littles examine the hairs on the elephant's tail and pronounce them heating up.
And I don't care to explain away what 60 million Brits have themselves thrown away.
But really, Philo, the sarcasm in your first paragraph rendered the remainder of your response less than compelling as it put many viewpoints in my mouth that I never addressed. If you're going to hold forth with your own opinions, and then make up opinions which you attribute to me, then you hardly need me.
And yes, if we're going to be called upon to: produce the bulk of the planet's trade goods; act as leader of the free world; function as the world's policemen; be the protector of western style democracy while you all follow the siren call of socialism; show ourselves the "shining city on a hill" for the downtrodden masses of humanity groaning under the burden of a grasping collectivist state, then damn right we'll up our production of so-called greenhouse gases.
When science, SCIENCE, produces irrefutable evidence that global warming is a fact, and not an emotional reaction like the example of your interminable response, then I'd be willing to discuss it. But not likely with you. Too emotional. Oh, one more thing: it was sink-hole, not stink-hole. Big difference.
Englishman, thank you for your recognition that the "we saved your ass" types are in the minority. However, I do have a problem with your "no concerns for the sanctity of life" remark. Bush is the same guy whose regard for the sanctity of life is likely to get in the way of my personal desire to see stem cell research carried out to its fullest.
And executions? Didn't it ever get across the pond that the governor of Texas has absolutely NO LEGAL standing whatever to intervene in an execution. None. Nada. Zip. Nyet. Nein. Non. It's the law in Texas. You're condemning the man about an issue over which he has NO authority or control whatsoever.
You may not like Star Wars, but you say it like the world's in agreement with you. I kinda like the idea that Hussein won't be able to Sadamize us any damn time he pleases. Or rootin' tootin' Putin, either. When it rains, I like to get under an umbrella. If it were going to rain nukes, I'd like this other kinda umbrella to get under. I can understand why some don't like it; they won't be able to threaten us with their shit. I like that in a defense system.
Ah, JahH. The Soviets won 90% of the war? Come on, my man. That's something of a stretch. The Russian WINTER may have done quite a bit for them in Stalingrad, and Hitler's second front showed his evil genius was on holiday. But to credit the Russians with winning 90% of the war? Sir, one hundred percent of WWII wasn't fought in Europe. Maybe 50%. Believe me, I'm trying to see your argument but don't.
And as far as education is concerned, the education system in this country is run by the same breed of liberals who are in favor of things like the Kyoto Protocols. You won't get me to defend the education system in this country. I would enjoy indicting it from now 'till noon tomorrow. I frakly think this country is going to go straight down the tubes, and the lack of education in this country, especially in history and political science is the major thing that will kill it.
When the average man on the street thinks the U.S. Bill of Rights is a communist plot, we're in deep shit. When the average high school student can't locate Minnesota on a map, we're in deep shit. When high school graduates over here know how to screw, but don't connect it with child birth, we're in deep shit.
You folks don't have to worry about the goddamn Kyoto Protocols, this country isn't going to last long enough to harm the environment. We're going to cave in due to the sheer stupidity of our citizens who are "educated" in government schools by liberal "educators" following collectivist, politically correct lesson plans.
It's late. I'm tired. There's a bird stuck in my damn chimney that now I have to go get out or I won't be able to sleep thinking about the poor dumb fucker. More anon.
Francois.
Where it is a duty to worship the Sun you can be sure that a study of the laws of heat is a crime.
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Seeker
francoise,
I frakly think this country is going to go straight down the tubes, and the lack of education in this country, especially in history and political science is the major thing that will kill it.
Yup, we agree, at least on this.
All I wish is that you could not view it as a liberal versus conservative thing but see that both sides are selling us out.