Bonn/Kyoto: Bush's stance gets heckled

by philo 53 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  hawkaw

  Not to bug you Jan but seeing you know your history ....

  I am always amased when you go back to that time. It was the communists and Stalin that were the big concern to a lot of governments. Who cared about Hitler. Then here comes Hitler with his "might" and invades the "Checks" and no one attacked Germany. The late 30s were wild with the totalitarian and dictatorship governments and all of the treaties that were going on. I find that time more fascinating than the war itself.

  Then the war, and suddenly we are on the same side with Stalin - LOL. How Churchill hated that. And then the iron curtin deal cut between Rosevelt and Stalin with Churchill whistling in the wind. What a wild moment and agreement in history.

  I always love reading about the Battle of St. Petersburgh - just wild stuff and a good reason not to be a German solider or a Russian civilian at that time.

  I still say if Hitler had built a proper air force to fight the British air war and if he had left Russia alone for a couple more years, he would have had his way into Russia

  Absolutely amasing when you look back.

  hawk
• 

  larc

  JanH,

  Your statement that Russia made 90% of the contribution to the defeat of Germany is absurd. How to you quantify that anyway? Did they account for 90% of the slain German soldiers? Did they conquer 90% of Germany? How on earth do you come up with such a statement?

  And we are just ignorant school boys if we think that the Russion winter had something to do with the German defeat. German soldiers were not dressed for winter. Their tanks shut down in the severe cold. Their supply lines were too long to sustain the troops and equipement once winter set in. So you are saying that none of this contributed to their defeat??
• 

  crossroads

  Hawk--Family weak=Country weak--nothing to fight for.
  
  Franc--Last point should have mentioned before.
  Generals are NOT leaders---They take orders from
  the pols. If the generals lead Germany would have
  won---read you history instead of throwing spit balls.
  Recent History maybe you'll actually remember this.
  The Supreme commamder the head of the Joint Chiefs
  of staff was TOTALLY against the bombing of IRAQ.
  But like a good little boy he put his tail between his legs
  and said YES SIR MR. PRESIDENT. Thats why he now
  has a figure head job and not the job he wanted which
  controls half of all our tax dollars.I do consider him a great
  american he stood up for what was right but then as a
  general did his job. If Ike was great really great he would
  have stood up to the pols and said I'm not going to
  slaughter all those young boys----Of all people HE
  knew better. But after all he wasn't a leader he was following orders.
• 

  crossroads

  Hawk--about the 19 century where was the US exactly
  on that ladder of world power anyway? Seems to me
  not near the top. Well we've gotten to the top and are
  now falling down the other side.
  HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
• 

  bigboi

  I'll be damned:

  I can't believe this but in this one I'm gonna side with JanH. What he's saying is a little known fact, but true. I won't say that russia was 90% responsible, but they definitely softened up Hitler's resources, no doubt. They weren't the first ones to enter Berlin by accident. Their tanks were the best used in the WWII by far. Their ground forces decimated the German Army on the Eastern front. That's a major reason why D-Day was such a great success. Hitler had to commit so many men to stop the Russian counterattack that he could not possibly muster the resources to stop the U.S. effort at Normandy. I've read more on this subject. I forget where though, I'll have to try to find the info somewhere in here. It was interesting though.

  ONE....

  bigboi
• 

  crossroads

  Hi Larc you know I respect your knowledge in saying
  that how can you call Jan on the carpet for his 90%
  remark? At the least the Russians were responsible for
  50% of the victroy just by divivding the German forces.
  How come you didn't call Franc on the carpet for his
  90% remark about Normandy? Well----listen if Hitlers
  forces weren't divide the germans would have kicked our
  asses back into the sea. Normandy would have been
  Ike's little big horn my friend and he can thank the Russians
  for saving his ass. His ass not the 1000's of green horn
  troops that lay slaughtered on the beach. How people
  think we got the best of that is beyond me.
• 

  larc

  Crossroads,

  I didn't comment on Fran's remark because I didn't see it. If you want to pull up a quote, fine. I don't have time now to go over this with a fine tooth comb. Also, I don't recall Franc calling others ignorant school boys. If he did, it was after JanH's insults.

  Bigboi,

  The Russians did not overwhelm the Germans until most of the German survivors of the invasion, either froze or starved to death trying to get back to Germany.

  It was Hitler's grandiose folly of attacking on two fronts and the Russian winter that did in Germany. Russia was in full retreat before the combination of the winter and severe battles in Stalingrad and outside Moscow shut down the German army.

  I will be out for a few hours - catch ya later.
• 

  bajarama

  xroads you said,
  

  U.S Imperialism--and Capitolism will go by the way side
  with in the next 25 years. Democratic--Socialism wiil
  regine supreme then. Really my friend thats the way
  humans were made to live.

  Dream on buddy, how can you make a statment like that and speak for all mankind. I don't need some socialist lawmaker to tell me the difference between right and wrong, while taxing me into slavery.

  Enjoy your stature your kids won't. As for your grand kids well there second language will probably be Chinesse. You and the
  rest of the 1% should be proud

  Your a JACKASS and I hope you end up some where on the front lines of that future conflict with China. You jealous broke off bastard. I would like to help all you socialists pull your heads out of your asses, but the doc says it is inoperable.

  Don't tread on me.

  baja
• 

  larc

  One more thing before I go. It simple minded and simplistic to say that one factor led to victory or to try to ascribe a percentage to any of them.

  Here are just of few.

  1. Overwhelming superiority of the manufacturing capability of the US.

  2. Hitler's folly mentioned above.

  3. The talent of the English code breakers that allowed access to German war plans and troop movements.

  4. Patton's brilliant strategic alilities.

  5. Eisenhower's ability to maintain some degree of peace between Patton and Montgomery.

  6. The destruction of the heavy water that was being shipped from a plant in Norway. This prevented the Germans from creating an A bomb.

  The list goes on and on.
• 

  philo

  Adding to Lark's list; someone mentioned the Russian winter. I'm not sure who gets the credit for that. Same goes with the fact that Britain is an island.

  Radar and sonar were developed by the British for the North Atlantic convoys.

  And mobile battlefield radio... not sure who.

  philo