Silentlambs and Signifiers that Signify Nothing

by dunsscot 113 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  larc

  Duns,

  No, I don't expect to be enlightened on JW policy, and no this is not a form of entrapement. Your term was trap queries, and I am not trying to put you in a "figurative bind." I want you to see the world the way it is. Let us start with good old uncle Charlie who butt fucked a little boy. What would you do if he was a "wordly person" and what would you do if he was a baptized member of the congregation?

  Now, let's talk about the rape case, since you want some definition. She comes home and her clothes are torn and she has scratch marks on her face and arms. Her eyes are glazed over and she can hardly talk. Is that enough of a criterion for you? If the rapist is a wordly boy, what would you differently than if he was a respected member of the congregation?

  Now, regarding the girl who is a schizophrenic, is it really up to the parents when they are told that the only place to go is to the elders at the Kingdom Hall? Since "meat in due season" does not include anything about major psychoses, I think mom and dad would not be prepared to make informed judgments.

  Duns, like you, I love the world of ideas. I love my research as much as you love the contemplation of ideas. Unfortunately, there is more to the Gestalt. I am about to weap as I think about it.
• 

  Scorpion

  Any Jehovah's Witness parent in their right mind would not go to the elders for help if their child had been molested within the congregation. Unfortunatly most Jehovah's Witnesses have turned their mind over to the WT, thus not having a mind at all.

  In a few instances that I know of, the JWs that had been molested were going to friends of the molester (elders) for advice and help.

  A third and unbiased party is what is needed. The authorities should be notified. If the JW that is accused of the molestations is innocent, I am sure Jehovah will bring this to light. What do you say dunsscot? Is Jehovah faithful enough to bring out the truth for those in the WT organization. What do they have to fear? Why keep things like this secret and hidden in the realms of the congregations?

  And don't say that there is no eveidence of ones being molested in the confines of the WTBTS. You deny the facts of what has happened to many in the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses as far as those who have been or claim to have been molested. Don't you care enough to stand out from the rest of the rank and file and make a difference?
  It seem's your main interest is defense of the WTBTS right or wrong.
• 

  larc

  Jerome,

  Thank you for your support. You are an elegant writer. I will comment on some of your dialogue (one point in particular) after I get a response from Duns.
• 

  dunsscot

  Dear Saint Jerome,

  I do not have all day to dispense with the sum total of mendacious and unjustified vilifications thrust at my faith today. Rather, I need to devote time to things that are "more important." Having said the foregoing, I just have to take time off from other "more important" pursuits to defend myself against your muddle-headed comments.

  :Holy Jaboney, larc. Whoa!
  I've enjoyed this interplay so far, but there has been a sea change. Clearly you are getting as serious as a heart attack on this one. You could easily have just given this guy the digitus impudicus/infamis, but now you have upped the ante (you must play mindless cards) and are nailing his callow ass to the xylon. Put up or shut up.:

  The only change in the "sea" (good word!) has been the scenario that brother larc chooses to present. His first few thought experiments were shown to be barren, vapid, and devoid of any true substance (essentia). He now resorts to vague questions and trap queries in an attempt to put a true follower of Christ to the test. But Duns is way ahead of him.

  You also mention my "callow [behind]." How would you know anything about my rectum? Are you one of those homosexuals the Bible says will not inherit God's Kingdom? With all due respect, you have never seen my behind, sir. How would you know it was "callow"? Then again, you could be talking about my donkey. But if larc nailed it to a xulon, he could possibly have animal cruelty charges brought against his "callow" anus.

  :Now Duns is demonstrably naked and out of his league, which heretofore has been relegated to words for the sake of words, for the truly experienced vs. cognoscenti to see. He is not an elder!:

  1) You have no way of knowing whether I am naked or clothed. You're not standing here in my bedroom with me, nor are you peering at my lovely soma over a webcam. I certain THINK I am clothed.

  Furthermore, you don't have the brains to know which league I am really in, dear saint. There is thus no way for you to tell whether I am in or out of my "league" (whatever that nebulous signifer means) at present.

  2) Words are hardly ever uttered for the sake of words. Maybe that is your practice. It is certainly not the Subtle Doctor's. Lewis R. Gordon (Brown University) eloquently writes:

  "Intellectuals have a peculiar relationship with words. Unlike academics, whose relation to words tends to be that of technicians, the intellectual LIVES through the world of words. Words paint realities. They dance, tiptoe, from line to line, paragraph to paragraph."

  Saul Kripke's notion of rigid designation vis-a'-vis counterfactual situations and codesignative entities also illustrates the ability of meaningful phonemes to create realities. Read _Naming and Necessity_ sometimes, if it is not "out of your league."

  3) When did I say I was an elder? I think the Doctor manifestly stated he was not!

  <<Jerome
  Fighting to eschew the show-off jargon.>>

  Have you witnessed any show-off jargon on this board? I must have missed such ungodly behavior. But do not worry. Jehovah will take care of anyone who seeks to stumble his "saints" by utilizing show-off jargon.

  Duns the Scot
• 

  Isis

  I have read most of the comments in regards to this subject and there is one thing that I feel has been overlooked. It seems to me that everyone is giving accounts of molestation that they have heard from someone else. I am no denying that these are true. In fact, I believe they are all true, that is because it happened to me.

  You are looking for first-hand evidence, well here it it. Please bear with me here, this is hard for me to write about so I am not going to go into the "details". I was in a situation when I was about 14. My father, an elder in our congregation at the time, did this to me. I turned to my mother for help. She was beside herself and called our PO. He came to our house and spoke to both me and my father. In the end, no "judical" committee or even "fact-finding" committee was ever formed. The PO came over he looked at my and said "Well, since this is the first time I have been made aware of this, we are all just going to have to learn to "deal" with it. In other words "Too Bad". It didn't matter that it wasn't the first incident with my dad, it only mattered that this was the first time I finally told. As if to say we have to wait until this keeps occuring and you keep telling before the PO or any other brother was going to do anything about it. He looked at me as if I was on trial. He just swept the whole thing under the rug and left it so that I just had to live with it and that was it. My father was not removed and the thing was my father never even denied it to the PO so, it's not like there would have been a problem in removing him.

  So you wanted your facts there they are. I thinks it's a damn shame that you are so blinded by loyalty to an organiztion that you would actually ask someone to reveal and relive those horrible personal facts just to prove to you your percentages. I thought long and hard and almost didn't respond your question, because actually its not of your business. But, I just felt it was the sacrifice I would have to make to prove to you to leave it alone. This was not fun and please DO NOT belittle me or my dignity anymore because of your NEED for mathematically statistics.

  Isis
• 

  Jim Lad

  wups
• 

  Kent

  I am of course referring to the supposed Dateline show and the claims made about some members of the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses. I find it absolutely amazing that some folks (certain opposers of JWs) are so quick to accept basically anything that other adversaries of Jehovah's Witnesses articulate. With zero proof, Silentlambs suggests that certain GB members were/are possibly child molesters. I'm waiting for the falsifiable/verifiable proof from "Silentlambs," however.

  Against folly - even proven facts isn't significant.

  Yakki Da

  Kent

  "The only difference between God and Adolf Hitler is that God is more proficient at genocide."

  Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
  http://watchtower.observer.org
• 

  Kent

  Hi larc

  A survey on this board revealed that 80% knew of child abusers. One person in a very high position knew of 40. I did a survey in my house. My wife knew of two; I didn't know of any. Of course, when I was in, I was pretty much like you, into the world of ideas and oblivious as to what was going on around me.

  Yeah, I know a few myself. But to this dignified windbag facts doesn't count. Facts are un-interesting; the interesting thing is to defend the un-faithful slave - eh- master.

  Yakki Da

  Kent

  "The only difference between God and Adolf Hitler is that God is more proficient at genocide."

  Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
  http://watchtower.observer.org
• 

  Hmmm

  Isis,

  Thank you for sharing. You'll find many friends and supporters on this board. Just don't let those still blinded to "the truth about the truth" get you down. Many of them will be here next year--as exJWs.

  Hmmm
• 

  Copernicus

  Jerome said:

  Without question he has no experience in these areas; that is abundantly (ab unda: from the flood) clear for all who are experienced to see, and his tediously prolonged verbosity now rings hollow. He is seen to be the apologist that he insidiously is.

  To which Duns responded:
  
  

  I do not have all day to dispense with the sum total of mendacious and unjustified vilifications thrust at my faith today.

  The multitudes of first person examples of abuse that have been posted on this board don’t warrant some degree of vilification? Are the perpetrators not villainous? You must be kidding. I then have to ask, what WOULD qualify them as such in your view?
  
  And:
  
  

  He now resorts to vague questions and trap queries in an attempt to put a true follower of Christ to the test.

  Duns now resorts to exhibiting a persecution complex: the last bastion of the deluded, self-righteous, and hopelessly defeated.

  Yes Duns, Jerome is right, you have no experience in these areas and you are arguing out of your depth. Why do that?

  To Isis:

  Welcome to the board, that thanks for speaking up. I can imagine how trying disputes like this are to someone who has suffered as you have.

  As we seen played out over and over again in the political arena in these types of situations, the Society also will attempt to deny, deny, deny (thereby showing their complete indifference to the pain of their victims). . . until the facts are presented for all to see. For you, and others like you Isis, vindication of some sort is on the horizon. I say this because I too have had some recent involvement with the almost completed Dateline expose’, and I can tell you that this mess is far worse then I could have ever imagined. For certain, you are not alone.