Did Jesus ever use the name Jehovah?

by LMS-Chef 53 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Narkissos

  It's to my understanding that Jesus(Yehovah), is the translation of Iesous(Greek), which had been translated from the Aramaic written word, as it couldn't actually be pronounced, YHS; which loosely translated is Yeshua, Y'shua, Yoshua... or Joshua.

  Leaving aside "Jesus(Yehovah)" which I suppose to be a mistake (Yshw` and Yhwh are different names), I don't know where you got this "YHS".

  The name usually transliterated Joshua is Yehoshua` (Exodus 17:9 etc.) or Yeshua` (1 Chronicles 24:11 etc.) in Hebrew, both forms being equally transliterated Ièsous (just as in the NT) in the Greek Septuagint, regardless of the character (the successor of Moses of the high priest of the exilic restoration, among others) they refer to (in the Greek NT "Joshua" is Ièsous too, e.g. Hebrews 4:8). The Aramaic (or Syriac) Yshw` is no different, although the Talmudic form is usually transliterated as Yeshu`.
• 

  zen nudist

  The name usually transliterated Joshua is Yehoshua` (Exodus 17:9 etc.) or Yeshua` (1 Chronicles 24:11 etc.) in Hebrew, both forms being equally transliterated Ièsous (just as in the NT) in the Greek Septuagint, regardless of the character (the successor of Moses of the high priest of the exilic restoration, among others) they refer to (in the Greek NT "Joshua" is Ièsous too, e.g. Hebrews 4:8). The Aramaic (or Syriac) Yshw` is no different, although the Talmudic form is usually transliterated as Yeshu`.

  Jesus is from Iesous which is from Joshua or Yeshua which is from YAH + Hosea or LORD + Saves/delivers, or Domino's Delivers.

  proof of a cosmic joke
• 

  ellderwho

  I refer to my parents by their first name as well as my inlaws. I do not object to my children calling me by my first name as I think it shows we are more that father and child but friends. My children tell us everything that goes on in their life. We are their confidants. Even as young children I did not object to my first name being used as long as it was used with respect. I volunteer in a primarry school working closelt with a few students aged 9 - 12 . They use my first name as well and I allow it as long as it is use with respect.

  LOL. Because this is your chioce, does not make an argument that this is how we are to address the "heavenly Father"

  In fact we can call the hevenly Father "daddy" which is a far cry from a modernized version of Yahweh.

  I could just picture the Father sitting back listening to people call out the wrong name, shaking his head and wagging the finger, no, no, no, Im not going to listen until you say the anglo-version Jehovah.

  This makes your god very,very small and petty. Im positive the controler of the universe is not worried about how believers say the personal name of the God of Israel.

  For me the most compelling evidence that Jesus used his fathers name was the texts I quoted earlier he made his fathers name known and would make it known.

  What really should concern you is how the WT picks and chooses how to translate Kurios to best fit doctrine. Esspecially 1Thess 4:15......

  15

  For this is what we tell YOU by Jehovah's word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep [in death] ; NWT

  Check the Westcott and Hort since thats where your text(NWT) comes from. You'll be surprised.

  Not using the correct pronunciation in English is not a problem. Even today when people go to other countreis people will miss pronounce names. The point is the indivduals involed know by the name just who is being spoken of. By using Jehovah wich has been widely accepted since before the JKV of 1611 people know that it refers to the God of the Jews. It was only last centry that religions started making a real effort to get rid of it.

  By that reasoning everyone prior to 1611 got Gods name wrong. C'mon Ben.
• 

  OldSoul

  For what it's worth:
  

  Matthew 4 Then Jesus was led by the spirit up into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil. 2 After he had fasted forty days and forty nights, then he felt hungry. 3 Also, the Tempter came and said to him: "If you are a son of God, tell these stones to become loaves of bread." 4 But in reply he said: "It is written, ?Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every utterance coming forth through Jehovah?s mouth.?"
  
  5 Then the Devil took him along into the holy city, and he stationed him upon the battlement of the temple 6 and said to him: "If you are a son of God, hurl yourself down; for it is written, ?He will give his angels a charge concerning you, and they will carry you on their hands, that you may at no time strike your foot against a stone.?" 7 Jesus said to him: "Again it is written, ?You must not put Jehovah your God to the test.?"
  
  8 Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9 and he said to him: "All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me." 10 Then Jesus said to him: "Go away, Satan! For it is written, ?It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.?" 11 Then the Devil left him, and, look! angels came and began to minister to him.

  Matthew 5 33 "Again YOU heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ?You must not swear without performing, but you must pay your vows to Jehovah.? 34 However, I say to YOU: Do not swear at all, neither by heaven, because it is God?s throne; 35 nor by earth, because it is the footstool of his feet; nor by Jerusalem, because it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor by your head must you swear, because you cannot turn one hair white or black. 37 Just let YOUR word Yes mean Yes, YOUR No, No; for what is in excess of these is from the wicked one.

  Matthew 22 34 After the Pharisees heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they came together in one group. 35 And one of them, versed in the Law, asked, testing him: 36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37 He said to him: "?You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.? 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ?You must love your neighbor as yourself.? 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets."
  
  41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together Jesus asked them: 42 "What do YOU think about the Christ? Whose son is he?" They said to him: "David?s." 43 He said to them: "How, then, is it that David by inspiration calls him ?Lord,? saying, 44 ?Jehovah said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet"?? 45 If, therefore, David calls him ?Lord,? how is he his son?" 46 And nobody was able to say a word in reply to him, nor did anyone dare from that day on to question him any further.

  Now, these may be spurious texts. If we are challenging the validity of Matthew's account, that is one thing. Otherwise, Jesus quoted from Hebrew Scriptures where the Hebrew Tetragrammaton appears. It is unlikely, given the prevailing views of the time, that he would have said the name.

  His audience was Jewish, except for The Debbil, and statements like "It is written" or "Have you not read" would call to mind the presence of the divine name in the text although he need not utter it. In this way, he could still properly claim to have made that name known.
  
  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
• 

  Narkissos

  OldSoul,

  The texts you quote are Greek texts quoting the Greek Septuagint: in none of the extant manuscripts do they contain anything like "Jehovah" -- only kurios, "Lord". That's the only solid fact we can rest on.

  What the historical Jesus might have said in Hebrew or Aramaic is left to our imagination -- it is not scripture.

  As a side remark, the name Jesus made known to the disciples in John 17:6,26 is clearly qualified in the context (v. 11-12):

  And now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one, as we are one. While I was with them, I protected them in your name that you have given me. I guarded them, and not one of them was lost except the one destined to be lost, so that the scripture might be fulfilled.

  While this probably alludes to the characteristic occurrences of "I am," as uttered by Jesus, in John's Gospel (4:26; 8:24,28,58; 13:13,19; 18:5ff), it is very clear that this has nothing to do with the invocation of "Yhwh-Jehovah" as distinct from Jesus, as the WT has it. Nothing could be more contrary to the thrust of John's Gospel.
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  OldSoul

  I agree, Narkissos. I was pointing out that while there were many occasions where Jesus is pictured as quoting from Hebrew texts that contained the Tetragrammaton, that doesn't mean he said the name. I am aware that the NWT took gross liberties in adding in the name wherever a 1st Century Jew quoted from a Hebrew text that originally contained YHWH.

  When those texts were read by a Jew in private the reader's eyes saw the divine name with profound reverence and awe, but in public it was not uttered. I agree with your assessment that had Jesus used the divine name publicly there would have been quite a row, and it would have been noted as were the examples of healing and "reaping" on Shabbat, as well as account of the woman being healed who suffered a flow of blood despite her venturing through a crowd of people and touching a teacher in an unclean state.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  Hondo

  Jehovah is found several time in the OT, never in the NT. The JW's incorrectly added it to the NT approximately 235 times, and several time to the OT, adding to the what is already there. A good measuring stick is the JW's own Kingdom Interlinier Translation (the purple one). No where in the greek, or left, side of the page does the name Jehovah appear. Yet on the right side (and you can count them) the JW's have added, to accomodate their twisted beliefs, the name Jehovah the 235 or so times. And of course we know about all the other doctrine enhancing changes they've made above and beyond the addition of the name Jehovah; "the word was a god," etc. Pretty sick.
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  Davidson_73

  This has nothing to do with the topic, but I couldn't find the topic I wanted anywhere, well to be honest I didn't bother looking, but who could fucking blame me? Anyway, when do you people think the world is going to end?
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  LMS-Chef

  Davidson who cares are you ready or not? I still have work to do.
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  Mac

  He once came close with Mary Magdalene......

  Nuff said........

  mac