The Second Amendment (page 3)

EvilForce

I don't see much discussion on the "well regulate militia" part of the single sentance of the amendment. How many militia people do we have currently? I would pose that the National Guard is a militia. Thoughts? Not part of the militia = no guns?

Englishman

Personally I have no objections to gun ownership for those who meet some stringent requirements. The UK gun laws are phenomally strict. You can't even buy shotgun cartridges without producing a licence.

Englishman.

LittleToe

Alan:
I'd like to correct you. Whilst it may have appeared to have been the British Government that were being b*st*rds, it was overrun by English. Had it contained a preponderance of Scots we could all have sorted things out over a drink and there would have been no need to bear arms

So are you telling me that people don't walk into bars with a sixshooter on their hip, anymore?
I'm crushed, truly I am!

Here we'd get arrested for carrying a peashooter in an aggressive manner.

jula71

Gun laws are pretty interesting and the effect on society. Here in the states, areas with the strictest gun laws have the highest crime rate. Even in other countries such as Canada and Australia, there have been fast increases in crimes since the crack down on guns. And in England, since the gun laws of the mid-90's, crime has sky rocketed, even to the point that per-capita, more violent crimes, burglaries and home invasions then the US. But back to topic, the 2 nd amendment assures us the right to bear arms, but the argument that hand guns weren't invented yet is crazy. They had cannons, does that mean it's legal to position cannons around our respected homes? A little common sense is in order here.

LittleToe

Ya mean I've gotta remove the cannons from the property?
Oh, really!!! That's just not cricket!!! ~sigh~
~seriously miffed!~

AlanF

Simon, I told you the same thing twice, taking pains to emphasize it the 2nd time around. How did you manage to miss it the 2nd time around, unless you weren't thinking clearly? I usually attribute unclear thinking by normally sharp people to something being wrong, and the fact that you made many trivial spelling errors indicated to me that you'd been imbibing. Am I wrong?

LittleToe, I much prefer to settle things over a good beer, too.

But most of us here in Fort Collins do pack sixshooters. Have to watch out for Apaches, you know.

AlanF

Liberty

Hi Englishman,

Love your posts. In answer to your concerns, the problem comes when it is a government making the judgements about who exactly "meets the requirements" for firearms ownership. The whole point of the 2nd Amend. from our revolutionary founder's view would be to not trust the government to make this call since they then would still hold all the cards anyway. The 1st Amend. doesn't require any government approval of what should qualify as fit to print or say for this very same reason. Freedom means not having the government regulate these vital means of protecting all the other freedoms.

Crime is always cited as an excuse for taking away all freedoms by big government supporters, yet what is forgotten is that governments throughout history have always been the worst criminals by far surpassing any brutalities that individuals could possibly commit. I trust my friends, co-workers, and nieghbors with weapons far more than a bunch of 18 year olds given just 9 weeks of basic training and brain washing by professional killers. The general population made up of experianced professionals of varius ages and life lessons who know what it is to love deeply, feel loss, raise children, take care of elderly parents, and have felt the weight of real responability are far more trust worthy with weapons than a bunch of brainwashed kids who are still thinking in black in white terms (hence the military's use of such young recruits). The mass murders, tortures, rapes, and thefts commited by governments is staggeringly huge when compared to the few deviants who commit such crimes as individuals in a society. Historically, your chances of being killed by a government is much greater than the off chance you will run into a murderous thug.

The militia as defined by our revolutionary fathers was the whole armed civilian populace which could come together to use their individually controlled weapons in an emergency, not a paid mercenary force armed and controlled soley by the government as in the National Guard which is just another reserve arm of the Federal Government. The 2nd Amend. is a right reserved for individual citizens just like religion, press, etc. and not for the establishment of another government agency like the National Guard.

LittleToe

Alan:

But most of us here in Fort Collins do pack sixshooters. Have to watch out for Apaches, you know.

Phew! All is well with the world, again!
I was getting really upset that I mighta been sold a lie by John Wayne.

LittleToe Shootout in Seattle

hillbilly

Mike... I own a bunch of firearms... Second Amendment or not we cannot waltz down the middle of town packin' iron in most places in the this country. The states and localites that allow open or regulated concealed carry usually have a high percentage of folks with really nice "manners" in public and low instances of crimes agains persons, like assault, rape and homicide.

I dont need a M60 machine gun so I wont buy one. On the other hand, a guy with a good pump shotgun or 100 year old Winchester '92 and Colt Peacmaker could put up a good home defense or be an effective bank robber or whatever... and that's really more about "responsibility" than gun rights.

Personally, I feel a whole lot better in certain neighborhoods with a .45 under the seat... and with the Sherriff a good 30 minutes away on the night shift you can bet I keep a legal "short" 12 guage shotgun close to the bed.

The Second Amendment provides the right to bear Arms. Over the years, Federal, state and local laws have been formed to make law- respecting citizens transport, sell , purchase, transfer, and shoot those firearms in some sort of safe and sane fashion.

Most states require firearms to be unloaded and cased , out of reach of the occupants of a motor vehical.

~ that makes "drive by" shooters criminals

Most states tack on big additional penalties if firearms are used in a crime or against Peace Officers

The Fed's make us register the sale or transfer of all new firearms and provides all sorts of regulations for shipping across state lines. Certain classes of firearms cannot be owned except by special registration and taxes.(Class 3 Full autos for example)

Many States provide rules for the transfer or ownership of handguns.

My state, for example requires me to report a stolen gun immediatly. We also have to produce all handguns for inspection by the local police (tax and registration)

Most states or local counties regulate open carry of firearms and tie hunting regulations to the firearms; limits on calibres, guages and magazine capacity

Many states require handgun caliber ammunion to be logged to the buyer.

The US is not the free for all the press makes it to be. Criminals use firearms for crime. If they couldnt steal or buy guns on the uderground market they would make them on their own.

The fact is, just about anyone with some basic machine shop equipment and a little high school chemistry can fabricate a deadly weapon.

As a side note here in Michigan most of the obtrusive handgun laws we have on the books stem from a incident back in the '30s.

A black man defended his family in Detroit from a home invader. The KKK lobbied to have most of the registration and carry laws enacted in an effort to keep firearms away from law-abiding black people.

The circle goes round and round , dont it..........?

~Hill

hillbilly

LT...Glock?

~Hill

The Second Amendment

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