Wife arranging for me to study with a brother! I need a plan!

by M.J. 48 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  I frankly disagree that studying a book isn't helpful.
  

  This is a war. In war you almost never want to oppose force with force. You want to use your enemies force and channel it in a way that leads to their defeat. That concept is a first principle of war.

  By studying a book you are signaling to your wife that you are "interested" and open to her religion. You are working out your strategy but your conversion to jw is the ultimate goal of her strategies. You need to be aware of that fact and utilize it. By understanding her strategy you can harness and re-direct it.

  If you aren't open to her religion (direct opposition), you are an opposer and to be avoided. In that situation you would have no chance to help her leave. You would be defeated in your ultimate goal.

  Besides, I actually learn some things about the Bible from my study. Really the only problem I have with the jw, and it is very significant, is TFDS doctrine. That really is the fountainhead of all that is vile with the jw.

  Were it not for that teaching they would be a nothing more than a solid group of conscientious Christians with a different take than orthodox Christianity. I might even consider joining?
• 

  bebu

  I say: write down the specific questions your wife couldn't answer....Use these questions for ONE meeting witht the super JW. Don't get hooked into a weekly study. He should know how to answer ONLY your questions.

  Excellent idea! I think that getting bogged into a book is not wise, even though some people start a strategy this way. The reason is, it puts THEM into control, and as soon as you start asking questions (which will naturally happen) you will want to LEAVE the book to get those answers. And then you are at the point where Codeblue has mentioned. So why not start at this point to begin with? Put your questions down on paper. Show that you know the issues well enough so that you don't end up going crazy while they treat you like you are in Kindgergarten.

  You might put the info (with web references) on 1 sheet of paper, summarizing the questions and the explanations given thus far. Explain that WTS have not satisfied you, and you would like more specific answers. Edited to add: Better yet, if the guy has email, then all your information (whether questions or WT defenses) should have links so that he can get up to speed with where you are. If he complains that you use any apostate links, use one of those handy WTS quotes which they use to make Catholics and others see it's okay to research materials that are unfriendly...

  This should lead to his doing research, sticking to the topic, and the answers that come (on paper, hopefully) can be shared and discussed with your wife. (Maybe she will see that answers are not as bullet-proof as she thought.) You don't have to sit and talk with someone who could make you want to rip your hair out, or bite your tongue. (Of course, you don't get to do the endzone dance when he gets whipped, either. )

  bebu
• 

  Spook

  Don't accept a "bible study" or use a a specific publication. This sets up the wrong context. You can not possibly disprove something that is made up. I suggest the following:

  Since the reliability and authority of Jehovah's witnesses rests on the acceptance of the FDS...

  1. Create a series of questions that logically reduces to the following premise: "We should do what the FDS tells us."

  2. Question "How do we know that there is a FDS? How do we know they are a class? Who specifically are included and discluded from this class? What testible criteria can be used to prove these claims?"

  3. Insists that all such evidence come from a source which has no association with the FDS. If such can not be provided, assert that the religion is self referential and can not possibly be proven.

  I used the exact same logic on Catholics many times in the ministry before I realized that it also applied to me. ;)
• 

  Check_Your_Premises

  Bebu is clearly an apostate and an agent of Satan since she disagrees with me, God's appointed represe...
  

  Sorry. I just took my meds. I suffer from Rutheford-Russel syndrome. It is an acute and severe form of schizophrenia which causes you to imagine yourself an agent of God, and all who don't agree with every word you say, an agent of satan.

  The patient is often overcome by a desire to publish silly magazines and bother strangers when they are at home, trying to watch a football game. When I am having one of my fits I work on my magazine, "The Look-Out-Tree-Fort".

  Any of you ever heard of it?

  But seriously. Whatever you decide to do, keep us posted with an "after-action" report. That will help us all to refine our methods and strategies.
• 

  Buster

  I think you should start the conversations at square 1. Set the ground rules. You'll need to do some homework. But I think it is worth it.

  1. Identify several mothods of false logic. You should be able to cite just about any book on the subject, it is not a doctrinal point. Identify circular logic, strawman arguements, ad hominem attacks, unsubstantiated implications/insinuations - there are others, look them up. Firmly state that you will dismiss any points supported by such logic. If he cannot agree to this, you will get nowhere.
  2. If he wants to review some dubbie publication, fine. But stay out of the read-a-paragraph-ask-the-question style. That method is like looking at an elephant from four inches away. It does not allow for inspection into the line of logic used to establish a point. Rather, do some prep. Insist on focusing on JW-specific doctrine. Ignore all the fluff designed to get your head numbed and nodding. Insist on time to review the material. Read the chapter by yourself. Ask yourself, 'what is the point being made in this chapter?' Then go back through the chapter looking for bad/invalid logic. Start crossing out the bad logic. When you are done, see what you have. Did they make the point? I think you'll be amazed.
  3. Tell him that if he cites non-biblical references, you will insist on full references. You want to be able to check the context of such quotes. You will accept no quotes from an encyclopedia, no quotes from 'a scientist in Zambia reports'.
  4. Look up the bible references. They throw so many such references at readers, that they stop looking them up. But grab your bible, and look it up. Read the chapter. Read some Commentary (I like Matthew's Commentary http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/mhc/ ) available on the web about that book and chapter. Then decide for yourself if that scripture actually supports the point. You'll be stunned as to how often the scriptures are completely out of context and irrelavant to the topic. You'll be bowled over by how often the scriptures support the exact opposite of what the WT wants you to believe.
  5. Go slowly! Your pace is what should be important.

  If SuperDub cannot abide by the rules, then you will not be able to have a substantive discussion.
• 

  bebu

  CYP:

  bebu
• 

  notperfectyet

  Thank you, I just threw up twice, now I can fit in my jeans again.
• 

  carla

  Me & my husband had an agreement like this awhile back. He would agree to meet with someone of my choosing if I would agree to meet an elder. I never allowed more than one jw plus husband to be there. For my turn I had a cult guy come, he was here for over seven hours! We showed husband all the flipflops, old stuff, etc.. He didn't care about any of it. Though I knew more about the org than he did at that time. For his turn, it turned into three seperate meetings. One with and elder, one ms, and one rank & file. None went very well. One was especially bad! I dropped the f-bomb on the poor rank & file. It wasn't like I said f-u but I was f-ing sick of this! I apologized profusely, but, he brought up our marriage and I lost it.I didn't think it was any of his business. Couldn't the dumb ass see? the org changes people, relationships etc... oh well, I did apologize, he didn't deserve it. But, the gb does. Good luck to you, carla
• 

  Preston

  As was the case when I was a JW, This whole study is gonna be a theatrical spectacle M.J.

  There hasn't been a single bible study I was ever participant to (as a dub) that consisted of any single desire for open dialogue about the Bible from the witness angle. They might as well go into your living room and erect a huge banner that says "Here's to changing M.J. ... let's Keep Reaching for the Stars!" They're there to change you, plain and simple, ad infintium... Your opinions, research and knowledge won't amount to a hill a beans ... they're not prepared for that. The whole thing will be weird for each of you.

  - Preston
• 

  AK - Jeff

  MJ

  Looks like the dubs are trying to 'set you up', and I think the chances of you convincing your wife of the facts thru this approach is too low to risk. This guy has been selected to reinforce the hold they have on your wife, who most likely has told them all about how you think.

  The gossip-wheel is working full gear behind the scenes as they scheme to 'save your wife' from her 'apostate thinking husband'. They will work her over in the car groups in service, in private conversation, as they are most likely doing now. Any points you score will get cancelled by the elders doing the refereeing from the sidelines. These guys can twist anything.

  Risk/Reward is a bad ratio here, IMHO. Be careful

  Jeff