Wife arranging for me to study with a brother! I need a plan!

by M.J. 48 Replies latest jw experiences

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  M.J.

  Thanks to everyone for your input. I really liked the suggestions on logic. I need to look into the common logical fallacies promoted by the WTS.

  Code Blue:

  You are a smart guy

  Gee thanks. Most often I feel sooooooo dumb, so it was nice to read that!

  I really think I should probably go at this thing with specific, prepared questions rather than "let's see, what should we study today?" or simply going through a book study. I don't want to waste that much time wading through flowery propaganda. But I do already have a couple Knowledge book cheat sheets, which could prove to be handy if I end up going that route.

  I feel I do have a decent grasp on their teachings, but I have not been exposed to their bait-and-switch tactics very much. I think I have a good sense for smelling such a rat, but one of my problems is effectively articulating my gut feeling. (email exchanges would be great, but not sure if it's feasible) So I think I'll sit with the guy just to get to know him first, and then decide if I want the wife to be present for the discussions.

  CYP and others: I think my wife feels I'm pretty sincere...to a point. She also knows I've got tons of facts backing up my skepticism. I think she simply feels that someone who has done a lot of background research can sufficiently set the record straight for me...at least that's what she's hoping. Let's face it, she truly wants this to be the truth and she wants me to be a part of it. It's part of the dream of theirs. I understand. I don't sense any sort of malice behind her efforts.

  OK so I think what I might do is suggest maybe one or two topics to discuss with this guy, along with prepared questions. Perhaps I'll start a new thread for suggestions on this.

  I feel my objectives here would be to:

  1. Present to my wife how this brother answered my questions and whether or not the answers were satisfying to me...and explain why / why not.

  2. Build rapport with her and show her that I am open enough to seriously look at things from her viewpoint, with the expectation that she may be more open to return the favor.

  3. Become more familiar with their arguments and viewpoint, which would only help me overall.
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  Buster

  I thought this was a nice summation of Logical Falacies: http://www.geocities.com/anatheist2001/subskepticismfallacies.htm

  Dubbie literature is jammed with that stuff.

  Good luck
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  johnny cip

  mj buster makes some very importaqnt points. DO NOT HAVE A BOOK STUDY!!!!!!!!! ask HIM if he has researched that the fds was choosen after a 3 1/2 year inspection from 1914 to 1918. to be jehovahs mouth peice onj earth get him to answer YES. NOW HE IS COMMITTED. TO BE CALLED A LAIR. now start hitting him with all the old stuff that you have found. every time he tries to discount what you have. ask him was this proper spritual food at the proper time? ie. the world to end in 1914 15 18 etc. black ppl will become white etc. hold him to each point and keep asking JEHOVAH'S SPRIT WAS LEADING THE WT TO TEACH THIS ? HE WILL MELT IN 20 MINUTES..,if he says your info is bogus. remind him he told you he researched all this stuff before . NOW HE'S CAUGHT IN THE LIE!!!!!!!. tell him since he researched all of this . he is welcome to bring over all the original wt's till 1919 . to show you were what you have found are incorrect. MAKE HIM BACK UP JESUS CHOOSE THE WT IN 1918/19 . FROM OLD WT BOOKS. TELL HIM YOU WANT TO BE AS CONVINCED AS JESUS WAS IN 1914-18. . in the end he will admitt he has never really studied more that a page or 2 of early 1900 wt material.. this is an easy stump the chump. i'd have this guy crying after a half hour. and you have to do the same. keep him on the wt and keep him out of the bible. mAKE HIM BACK EVERY REFERENCE. WITH ORIGINALS. i'm sure if you do it right. you can show your wife that no jw, can prove jesus choose the wt in 1918/9 to be the true religion. ( and that's the whole point of the tuesday night book study). just hold his feet to the fire. and he will melt like a marshmellow. happy hunting. shooting fish in a barrell... john
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  bebu

  I'd love to listen to johnny cip in action!

  bebu
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  Sunspot

  I'd love to listen to johnny cip in action!

  Bebu, He sure is a firecracker!!!

  Great post Johnny!

  Annie
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  gringojj

  carla what eventually happened?
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  Golden Girl

  It still amazes me that people become JW's ..then they need someone else to explain why they believe what they do!

  Why become a JW unless you yourself know all the teachings.?

  That's like buying a new house without looking at it.... Or picking a stranger out on the street..never knowing them..and commiting yourself to be married to them ..forever!

  Before joining a religion..you should really check all things about it out! If you don't...you are joining a group of "People".... not a religion.

  Think twice..Are you wanting to be a JW?..You should be allowed to ask any questions you want. If not..run don't walk to the door!

  I didn't ask ENOUGH questions before I leaped! Of course..they had the motto" Ask me no questions and I will tell you no lies!"

  I guess I joined a group of people!...

  But got smart..looked up the Real Truth about JW's on the internet..compared their books to the bible and what they actually teached....got shocked and left!

  A much wiser "Snoozy"
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  ESTEE

  which part of NO wouldn't she understand?

  Love and light

  ESTEE
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  crinklestein

  I suggest doing research on the changes in their teachings. How they used to say one thing used to be bad but now it's good and how one thing used to be good an now it's bad. Changes in dogma, changes in policy enforcement, promises that were never fulfilled etc.

  I would get them to admit that the reason they don't celebrate holidays is because they used to represent things against God and how once something is bad it is ALWAYS bad. Anything with a bad beginning is always bad, regardless of how good and clean it looks now. That's their thinking.

  Then ask them if numerology is acceptable. They will say that it is from Satan.

  Ask them if they approve predicting the end of the world. They will say that no man knows the time or the date and that it would be a waste of time and considered to be divinaiton.

  Ask them if secret societies like the Freemasons are acceptable. They will say no.

  Ask them if it's acceptable to take the beliefs of other religions and merge them into your own. THey will say that everyone else is wrong and they're the only ones that are right.

  Ask them if it's ok to rely upone one's own understanding of what they read in the Bible or if you would have to believe only what you are told to believe. They will tell you that NO ONE can have accurate Bible knowledge without going through "God's chosen network": AKA The Witnesses.

  Ask them their stance on world organizations like the UN and Wallstreet. They will say that the UN is the earthly representaion of Satan and will advice you to stay away from Wallstreet.

  Ask them all of these questions, get their answers, write them down but DO NOT RESPOND TO THEM. Wait untill all your questions are asked and then make your response by informing him that their founder seriously used numerology AND astrology to try to predict the date of Armageddon. In fact he wrote several books and articles about it.
  Point out that their founder was an active member of the Freemasons and has a very large Masonic pyramid with the All-Seeing-Eye at the top of it.
  Point out that their founder took alot of the teachings of the 7th Day Adventists to base alot of his own teachings on.
  Point out that in the Proclaimers book it is mentioned that their founder decided to read the entire Bible without any preconceived ideas or beliefs on what he was reading so that he could interperet ON HIS OWN what the Bible was saying so that he could rely upon his own understanding of it.
  And finally point out that they belonged to the UN for four years as an NGO and that you know they denied knowing about it. Then they changed their mind and said that they did know about it and that it was only for the purpose of getting access to the UN library. Then ask them that if the UN is the representation of Satan on Earth then why would they want to get access to Satan's library?
  Also point out that you know the WBTS are major shareholders of RJ Reynolds stock as well as stock in companies that research and develop weapons.

  Unload all of this information on him one right after another without letting him interupt or try to explain and excuss away. After all of this then ask them that, if ANYTHING has bad origins then it is ALWAYS bad regardless of how good it looks now, why should you ever seriously consider joining them at all?
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  carla

  What eventually happened? Well, I'm still researching trying to find the magic bullet. He is planning to be baptized in July. I'm just sick about it. Trying to make him see, but, not getting anywhere. Now, trying to make him THINK more than anything. He claims the 'brothers' are just so upset by our 'problems'. They feel really bad. Yeah, right. I don't care what they think. I think they care more that he has an unbelieving wife and kids than anything. He said he has postponed his baptism hoping I would come around at some point. He also knows that if he ever goes door to door I will start a door to door campaign of my own, with the 'cease & desist' letter. At one point he suggested I start an anticult ministry. I wrote Brooklyn and asked them what they thought about the idea, funny, no response. I just thought, he being the head of the house and all. ha ha. trudging on, carla