Are You For or Against Abortion?

by minimus 152 Replies latest jw friends

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  RichieRich

  I'm with carol.
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  greendawn

  I am against because it involves destroyng a life albeit in an as yet unconscious state. Some unscrupulous doctors use the embryos for medical research.
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  SixofNine

  Of course there are excepetions. Rape, a threat to the mother's life or health and disabled embrios to name just a few. Here is when the concept of choice makes sense.

  Can't understand why you see rape as an exception? If the all important issue is the life of the unborn child, wanted or not, why should rape be a factor? The potential child had no say in the circumstances of the egg-sperm pairing that produces him or her.

  For instance, you gave your own life as an example of someone who potentially might have been aborted. If you had been the product of rape, would you now wish to not exist?

  The truth is, if any of us had been aborted, no one would miss us. No one. Simple non-existance is horrifying to us individually, but when it happens, and it happens millions of times every day, no one notices. No one.
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  Pole

  six of nine,
  
  

  Can't understand why you see rape as an exception? If the all important issue is the life of the unborn child, wanted or not, why should rape be a factor? The potential child had no say in the circumstances of the egg-sperm pairing that produces him or her.

  
  
  Simple. Raped women had no "choice" when conceiving a baby.
  
  

  The truth is, if any of us had been aborted, no one would miss us. No one. Simple non-existance is horrifying to us individually, but when it happens, and it happens millions of times every day, no one notices. No one.

  
  
  From me personally, this is a very stupid and nihilistic argument. Same logic applies to getting killed as a one day old child. So what's wrong with killing an unconscious baby?
  
  Real arguments, please. I can be convinced if I see one.
  
  Pole
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  Pole

  For instance, you gave your own life as an example of someone who potentially might have been aborted. If you had been the product of rape, would you now wish to not exist?

  
  
  As you said - I wouldn't now care anyway, but I would have understood why my mother would've wanted to have an abortion.
  
  
  Pole
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  Evesapple

  I view abortion as being a very difficult choice for most anyone and I recognize that all sorts of very difficult circumstances tend to arise that call for the need of an abortion.

  This is why I am strongly inclined to stay out of others' private business regarding whether or not to have an abortion

  I agree....best comment.

  I personally will not be one to judge anyone who is in that position to have to make such a difficult decision...nor give my view point one way or another, it just doesn't matter.
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  SixofNine

  Pole, my argument is neither stupid nor nihlistic. It's simply fact. Maybe disconcerting to contemplate, but fact nonetheless.

  You and I both would argue for abortion. Our difference is in whose hands to leave the decision.

  As to this: "Simple. Raped women had no "choice" when conceiving a baby", you know very well that there is nothing simple about it. The potential child has no choice whether by rape or consensual sex, and yet otherwise has all the life potential of every other fetus. And if you say "no, it doesn't have all the life potential of every other fetus", due to the fact that it is unwanted by both father and mother, then you have essentially come around to a pro-choice position.
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  darkuncle29

  I think it would be wonderful if there was never any need for it, and I live in a country where contraception is free and widely available, so unplanned pregnancies should be extremely rare. I would love for there never to be any non-consensual intercourse, and for all babies to be healthy and viable.

  As long as we don't have this utopian set of circumstances, abortion should be safe, legal and rare.

  I love this answer.

  I would choose to not have an abortion. Being a guy, that is an extrememly mute point. I also feel that it is not my place to tell another what they should or should not do; as it is not their place to tell me what I should or should not do. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. I think I am finially getting to the point where I do not secretly or internally "judge" someone for doing this though; coming from our collective background I think that is no small mile marker. ((If my remarks here cause offense--that is not the intention--PM me privately, and we'll discuss it, or I'll clarify my meanings.))
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  Pole

  Pole, my argument is neither stupid nor nihlistic. It's simply fact. Maybe disconcerting to contemplate, but fact nonetheless.

  
  
  Notice that I said 'for me personally'. But anyway the two adjectives were largely rhetorics. And rhetorics often generates counter-rhetorics as in this case. Sorry about my choice of words. Still I think saying individual life doesn't ultimately matter as part of your argument doesn't make it better.
  
  

  As to this: "Simple. Raped women had no "choice" when conceiving a baby", you know very well that there is nothing simple about it. The potential child has no choice whether by rape or consensual sex, and yet otherwise has all the life potential of every other fetus. And if you say "no, it doesn't have all the life potential of every other fetus", due to the fact that it is unwanted by both father and mother, then you have essentially come around to a pro-choice position.

  
  
  Of course it's not simple. What I wrote is simple was how this situation was different from the woman's perspective. I do understand your argument. And I also think by putting it this way you are essentially using the 'pro-life' logic. I mentioned this case as an example of a situation in which I (and my partner really) would consider an abortion. That's all. You may have noticed that earlier on I wrote I'm not sure if banning abortion is a good idea in practical terms. That was because I understand the delicacy of the issue when one is trying to come up with a perfect answer for everybody.
  
  The truth is however that in many cases abortion is chosen to save a career/lifestyle. That's something I personally can't understand without becoming more nihilistic than the situation actually requires. The price my mother paid was postponing going to college for 25 years and all the effort involved in bringing up a kid as a lonely mother. Is that such a high price for such a sweet dude as myself :-). Maybe it is. Let other people judge.
  
  END OF REPLY TO SIXOFNINE
  
  On a different note: I hate how people buy entire ideologiacl packages. Leftist: pro-abortion against death penalty, right wing: against abortion, for death penalty. Do these sets of beliefs really correlate so strangely with each other?
  
  Pole
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  Pole

  EvesApple,
  

  I personally will not be one to judge anyone who is in that position to have to make such a difficult decision...nor give my view point one way or another, it just doesn't matter.

  
  I disagree. If you have a well-thought out opinion, then it does matter. If people stop voicing their opinions then our choice of ideaology will depend on chance (like what our parents told us to believe, etc.).
  Cheers,
  Pole