What was Jesus implying...........................

by defd 87 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Honesty

  So why is it that MANY use that SINGLE scripture to support a false doctrine?

  I hope you don't think that people who believe that God is composed of three identities use John 10:30 as the single scripture they use to support their belief. Where did you get this idea from?

  Have you ever really discussed with a professing Christian why they believe that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one God?

  IMO, the WT version of God is full of holes. The NWT of John 1:1 is an excellent example of this.
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  defd

  Honesty when I say single scripture i dont mean ONLY scripture. I mean why do many TAKE that single scripture out of context and use it to support the trinity? When it clearly does not,.
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  jwfacts

  John 10:30 means whatever you want it to mean, like most scripture. Start with what you want to believe and make it fit.
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  Narkissos

  I would suggest that the fourth Gospel offers an original, open, pervasive, expanding definition of God which doesn't exactly fit classical monotheism (in both its unitarian and trinitarian forms). This is clear enough to me from the fact that whatever the Father is to the Son the Father and Son are to the believers -- who already belong to God as the sheep who know the shepherd's voice and God's own children. All end up revealed as one in mutual indwelling.
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  AlmostAtheist

  I mean why do many TAKE that single scripture out of context and use it to support the trinity? When it clearly does not,.

  If any do that, it is simply out of ignorance. All scripture-citers are vulnerable to reading a verse, thinking it agrees with what they believe, and then using it as a proof text.

  Believe it or not, my brother in law whipped out that scripture in Jeremiah that condemns those that brought trees into their homes and decorated them with silver and gold in order to show me that the Bible condemns Christmas celebrations. Even the Watchtower doesn't say that (they say the opposite, in fact), but in his ignorance and blind zeal, he grabbed a verse that sounded close and made it fit.

  Here's a site that lists "proof texts" for the trinity. Interestingly, they not only list the verse Defd brought up, but they mark it as "irrefutable".

  http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-proof-texts.htm#new
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  defd

  Almost

  i went there and ..............................laughed! They state that NO where in those verses did jesus refute there claim. WHAT? Talk about being blind. Man oh Man I dont know what to say.
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  OldSoul

  It seems to me that he was stating facts. When the Jews then attempted to stone him, he did not defend himself by stating plainly, "I am not God!" He said the scriptures called gods those against whom the word of God came. Then he restated he was the Son of God.

  Interestingly, the Scripture he quoted from was Psalm 82:6, which says, "I myself have said, "YOU are gods, And all of YOU are sons of the Most High.'" Which basically is a denial that he was any less than God. After doing that, he reasserts that "the Father is in me, and I in him."

  In context, the argument is very strong that Jesus was contending that humans are gods. Something to think on when considering that he later said his disciples were in him, just as he is in the Father. It seems Jesus was something of a mystic, not terribly dissimilar in teachings to many other mystics of his day. Before everyone jumps down my throat about that, please understand that his words and actions were not recorded by him, but by people observing him and listening to him. They would have certainly applied their own bias to what they saw and heard.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  Honesty

  We could go on and on and on and on about the trinity or not the trinity but.......What really matters?

  Righteousness by Faith Alone

  1 Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God concerning them is for their salvation!

  2 I can testify about them that they have zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.

  3 Because they disregarded the righteousness from God and attempted to establish their own righteousness, they have not submitted to God’s righteousness.

  4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

  5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is from the law: The one who does these things will live by them.

  6 But the righteousness that comes from faith speaks like this: Do not say in your heart, “Who will go up to heaven?” that is, to bring Christ down

  7 or, “Who will go down into the abyss?” that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.

  8 On the contrary, what does it say? The message is near you, in your mouth and in your heart. This is the message of faith that we proclaim:

  9 if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

  10 With the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

  11 Now the Scripture says, No one who believes on Him will be put to shame,

  12 for there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, since the same Lord of all is rich to all who call on Him.

  13 For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Romans 10:1-13 (HCSB)

  Who is the Lord?
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  defd

  honesty

  This thread was not intented for a trinity debate if you read through the whole thread. It is about UNDERSTANDING scriptures accurately by means of context.
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  Honesty

  In context, the argument is very strong that Jesus was contending that humans are gods. Something to think on when considering that he later said his disciples were in him, just as he is in the Father.

  There are other scriptures that support the view that humans are just a little lower than God:

  3 When I observe Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars, which You set in place, 4 what is man that You remember him, the son of man that You look after him?

  5 You made him little less than God and crowned him with glory and honor.

  Psalms 8:3-8 (HCSB)