What would you have done?

by defd 90 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Finally-Free

  Regardless of whether I were alive in the first century or involved in a religion today, if it were a true religion I would have stayed. However, the religion of the Watchtower Society cannot be true or approved by God.

  1. Pioneers
  2. Auxiliary pioneers
  3. Secret kangaroo courts
  4. Literature in addition to the bible
  5. No beards allowed on men
  6. Reporting of field service
  7. Conflicting new light
  8. Corporate structure
  9. Kingdom Halls
  10. Secret elders manual
  11. False prophesies
  12. Protection of child abusers
  13. UN scandal

  These are things that go beyond what is written in the scriptures. And we know what the bible says about those who go beyond what is written:

  Gal. 1: 8

  However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed.

  Rev. 22: 18, 19

  “I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll.

  W
• 

  Soledad

  Brenda:
  

  You're thinking of Cornelius. Paul was formely known as Saul, a Jewish tradesman and prophet.

  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/first/missions.html
• 

  Honesty

  MINOR problems? Is INCEST minor? Is ADULTRY minor? IS TEACHING FALSE doctrine minor? I dont think so. This is no different in Gods ORG. today.

  The difference is that the WTBTS and its cult do something the early church never dreamed of. They deny Jesus as Lord and act like the Pharisaical Jews who hated Him.
• 

  OldSoul

  defd,

  According to the Scriptures, the First Century Christian had gifts that identified them as true servants of God. According to the Governing Body, such gifts have passed away. Thus, my questions to you relating to Scriptural basis for their authority. The Scriptural basis isn't obvious. You have to prove it.

  You haven't answered. I don't believe you can.

  The Catholic Church claims to have God backing their authority to teach and reveal truth to the laity. The Governing Body claims to have God backing their authority to teach and reveal truth to the laity. The Mormon's Governing Body makes the same claim. Are they all correct? How can you tell which one really has authority?

  You know as well as I that we have been taught for decades to use the Bible to determine that point. Well, I ask you to use the Bible. Can you support the Faithful and Discreet Slave being viewed as a class of people by using only Scripture? Can you support that God has a "spirit-directed" organization at all, much less that the CCoJW is the one? Can you support that the Faithful and Discreet Slave are supposed to be receiving and revealing "new light"? Can you support that the other sheep cannot get "the truth" apart from the Governing Body's guidance?

  Your response so far has been to ridicule the questions, like the Baptists ridicule questions about the Trinity and hellfire. When will you take up your own rules and apply them to yourself? When will you establish your beliefs on Scripture, instead of organizational rhetoric?

  OldSoul
• 

  ithinkisee

  Def'd said:

  The Bible speaks of MANY problems that existed within that Congregation. It had people problems. They were not acting as Christians. They would shun, discriminate, form clicks, allow blatent wrongdoers room freely within disrupting the peace and unity. People were backbiting, fornicating, teaching wrong doctrine and the list goes on and on. That is not the only Congregation that had people problems. Pauls letter to the Ephesians, Philippians, Hebrews and so on ALL had to be addressed for problems. What would you have done? Would you have left the Corinthian Cong. to go to the Cong. in Ephesis? They too had severe problems unique to the area they lived in? Would you have concluded that this must not be Jesus Congregation? What would you have done?

  You could say the same thing about the Catholic Church too ....

  -ithinkisee
• 

  Honesty

  like the Baptists ridicule questions about the Trinity and hellfire.

  I've already posted in reply to defd's question. I'm Baptist only because it is the denomination my church affiliates with. As for hellfire... I don't believe it is a literal burning place; rather eternal separation from God. The Trinity is, according to the scriptures the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. All one and in agreement. Back to topic... A comparison of the WTBTS/JW's with early church history shows huge differences between the two. Maybe the early church just didn't have enough 'New Light' back then.
• 

  defd

  I have noticed in this thread that some make comparison with the JWS and Catholics. They ask whats the difference. For one WE Worship the one and only true God Jehovah, THEY DO NOT. I know this, I use to be a Catholic. The Catholics pray to Saints and use the Saints as Mediators to God. WE do not. We pray to Jehovah through the proper Mediator, Jesus. The Catholics use IDOLS in there worship. They Light candles before them and kiss there toes and pray to them. We do not. I can go on and on. There is NO comparison .

  Again people are dancing around the question at hand. You know what I am getting at. The same problems exist in God ORG. and with his people as it did in times past The question to those who left because they feel this CANT be Gods Org. because of the problems is: How do you explain away the same problems throughout The history of Gods people? Was ISREAL not Gods people? Was the Christian Congregations not Jesus sheep and Gods people? If they were, the question is: WOULD YOU LEAVE because of ALL those problems assuming this must not be the truth, when in fact it is NO different TODAY in Gods ORG.
• 

  kwintestal

  We pray to Jehovah through the proper Mediator, Jesus.

  Defd, I'm sorry. Jesus is not your mediator:

  *** Worldwide Security Under the "Prince of Peace" (1986) pp.10-11 ch.1 The Desire for Peace and Security Worldwide ***

  16 Just as the ancient nation of Israel was in a covenant relationship with Jehovah God through the mediator Moses, so the nation of spiritual Israel, "the Israel of God," has a covenant relationship through a mediator. (Galatians 6:16) It is as the apostle Paul wrote to his Christian fellow worker: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus." (1 Timothy 2:5) Was Moses the mediator between Jehovah God and mankind in general? No, he was the mediator between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the nation of their fleshly descendants. Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members. This spiritual nation is like a little flock of Jehovah's sheeplike ones.—Romans 9:6; Revelation 7:4.

  How can they say that?

  Kwin
• 

  defd

  Kwin I vagely remember something said like that. But I at this time CANNOT except that and believe that must have changed but I could be wrong. I will do research on that or if someone could give me the # to WT I will call today and ASK them.
• 

  kwintestal

  Defd, that is the exact quote that I just varified on the WT 2003 CD-ROM. Here's another one:

  ***

  w91 2/15 p. 18 "You Were Bought With a Price" ***

  11

  Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great crowd have already "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God’s Kingdom. Christ still acts toward them, however, as High Priest, through whom Jehovah can and does apply the ransom to the extent of their now being declared righteous as God’s friends. (Compare James 2:23.) During the Millennium, they will gradually "be set free from enslavement to corruption [until finally they] have the glorious freedom of the children of God."—Romans 8:21

  Kwin