This One Is For Scholar And His Celebrated WT Scholars (page 5)

scholar

Leolaia

Thank you for your witticism!

scholar JW

Leolaia

Maybe the celebrators are just as "unknown and unknowable" as the celebrated. An interesting case of silent, anonymous, unvoiced and unheard celebration.

Aha, just like JCanon's secret JIOR group?

I think I'll put my two cents in here.

First for Scholar. Were do you get the idea that nobody can know the identity of the translators of the NWT? Raymond Franz, who was certainly in an excelent position to know since he served on the Governing Body and was Fred Franz's nephew, informed the world that his uncle Franz was the real translator while the others on the committee served in support functions. Unless you are prepared to call Ray Franz a liar, then you have to accept his word for it. As for Fred Franz's qualifications, he went to a University, but left halfway through his junior year in 1913 with 81 semester hours completed. (I have a photographic copy of his transcript before me as I type this, it is availble online, though I can't remember exactly where)

Other than what we would call core curriculum courses today, his training was in classical languages (Latin, Classical Greek), not Koine Greek. There is a two hour course in New Testament Greek listed, but that's about it. Maybe that's why we see the Vulgate Bible listed so much in the footnotes of the reference editions. I guess he was alot more comfortable with Latin than Greek or Hebrew. Now I am not going to put down self study since that is how I've studied both Greek and Hebrew. But I am sure you'll agee that is a lack of Qualifications on Franz's part as an expert, doesn't it?

My own study of the languages, though, convinced me that most translations are lacking when the Greek and Hebrew don't quite agree with dogma. Let's take the good old standby of John 1:1 for example. I find it interesting that the experts will call the rendering in the NWT "irresponsible", Wrong, and "reprehensible", just to mention a few, while admitting in works not meant for general consumption that it does not correctly translate any other way. One poster did mention that one textbook did admit that the greek grammar did justify a renedering consistent with the NWT, but rejected it on purely philisophical grounds. I've seen that one as well. The text I used for my initial studies in greek admitted as much. It stated that the grammar did not support the meaning that God and the Word were one and the same, yet, the author emphasized that the only accepted rendering for that verse in the scholarly community was "and the word was God." How much more dishonest can they get?! And that is not all. Most Bibles have Jesus saying "hellfire", or "fires of hell" in his sermon on the mount when he didn't say anything of the sort! Most of my fellow exJWs know exactly what I'm talking about here.

But that is not to say that the NWT is superior, far from it. Some its failings were already mentioned by others. My personal favorite, is Gal. 6:1 "Brothers, even though a man takes some false step before he is aware of it, LET YOU WHO HAVE SPIRITUAL QUALIFICATIONS try to readjust such a man..." The Greek says, "let you who are spiritual etc..." We all know what that was about, don't we? Still, the NWT does have its merits. No tradition or dogma should stand in the way of using God's name Jehovah wherever it appears in the original. The flip side is that it should not appear where there is no direct evidence of where it may have been originally, like it does hundreds of times in the New Testament of the NWT, no matter how compelling the indirect evidence is that it was once there. That should wait until manuscripts of great antiquity are found showing us exactly where it was originally placed. It is arrogant to do otherwise!

As I said, all translations fall short in various ways. But then, I am reminded of words attributed to Jesus in many Bibles "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." I am sure we would all fall short in some way.

Forscher

Forscher

PLease excuse me, Idon't know how to edit my posts here.

Where I said the Greek read "Let you who are spiritual", it should read, "let you who are mature." Please accept my apologies for the error.

Forscher

Narkissos

Forscher, You were right in the first place: humeis hoi pneumatikoi, "you the spiritual (ones)".

Forscher

Thanks, Narkissos, I was going from memory.

Forscher

Cygnus

Forscher, I just wanted to pop in here real quick and tell you I enjoyed your post very much.

Also, a thought came into my head. English is the language that must be used in order to participate on this forum, according to Rule #8. Scholar, for example, writes poor English. Both his spelling and his grammar are atrocious. English is obviously not his primary language, just as Koine Greek was not FW's. Others on this forum whose primary language is English also demonstrate a serious lack of ability to write it very well. Have you ever noticed that the copies of the Watchtower extremely rarely have any spelling or grammar mistakes (English versions anyway)? My point is, language is darn difficult and if FW really was the principal translator of the NWT, not to mention prolific author of Watchtower books and magazine articles, then I think he did a heck of a job.

This One Is For Scholar And His Celebrated WT Scholars

scholar

Leolaia

Forscher

Forscher

Narkissos

Forscher

Cygnus

stillajwexelder

Low-Key Lysmith

stillajwexelder

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