Posts by outbutnotdown

81

Covenant with Noah, VOID!!! So much for the rainbow..........

by deceit in

jw
friends

was it not jehovah?s promise to never kill humans again by means of massive floods?

i guess knocking on 100,000 deaths is just a minor slip-up.

knowing the response of jw's to the horrible situation in asia and their reasoning of it, makes me feel indescribably sick in the stomach!

outbutnotdown

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." (Stephen Roberts)

I love that saying!!! I have held onto the same belief as my explanation of why I will never join another organized religion, I just have not said it quite so eloquently.

Scizm said:

No he hasn't. Satan's being cast out of heaven has yet to happen.

Am I missing something? Has Schizm said something false or has the WT just changed another one of their teachings?

When Jesus didn't "physically" come to the earth in 1914, didn't the JW's start teaching that he started ruling in Heaven and that the First World War was evidence of Satan being cast down to Earth?

Brad

47

Was God in this disaster?

by bikerchic in

jw
friends

i got this in my email and thought i would pass it along.

i know many of us are struggling with so many issues involving god and the bad things that happen.

for me this recent tsunami disaster was over the top, i'm beyond understanding and i'm not going to say this article helped me understand any better but it did show me that x-jw's aren't the only ones who struggle with such questions.

outbutnotdown

Heathen, you said:

We are not living in the time where all mankind can live in the security of Gods kingdom and can avoid all disasters .

That was kind of what bikerchic was getting at, I think. How "real" is that hope? I know when I left the JW's I also left behind their delusional teachings. I may be wrong, granted, but IMO it is better to make my own wonderful life from what "God" did give us rather than waiting for him to do it for us.

Unfortunately there are still disasters that happen. But would I not be insulting God even more if, by what you seem to be suggesting, he could step in at any time but didn't, not even to stop that earthquake/tsunami?

Brad

78

Research on the validity of 1914

by Bluegrass Tom in

here are a few facts that i have recently discovered by doing some research.. the watchtower society uses the date of 539 b.c.e as the date that cyrus took over babylon.

they use the term "absolute date" to define this as an unquestionable point in time.

to do this they had to ignore 586 b.c.e which is the real date for the destruction of jerusalem.. therefore, if jerusalem never lay desolate for 70 years, when does this desolation and fulfillment of this prophecy take place?

outbutnotdown

scholar said:

The great merit of WT chronology is that it is simple, easily explained and has prophetic significance leading to 1914 as shown by the recent disaster in Asia.

I am curious to see what you are going to say is the significance of the disaster in Asia in regards to "prophetic significance" relating to 1914. I will await your response on that.

In the meantime, the thing I find interesting with the WT whole cronology is how strongly they latched onto 1914, despite the fact that they already had other dates dismissed (1874, 1878, 1881, I believe) as only being "partly" fulfilled.

This may be going "outside the box" as far as the usual arguments go in this area, but here goes:

The WT finally had something to hold onto with the war starting, later to even be called WWI. When you are in a doomsday group/cult you need doom to sell. In no way do I believe that it was "proof" of Jesus kicking Satan and the demons out of Heaven but I used to. It used to scare the living crap out of me when I was younger.

Look at what they did with Rutherford and the boys getting thrown in jail (1919 ?) and years later, the bans on JW's....... while the rest of the world looked at them as being dangers to society as a whole, the JW leaders took the exact same situation and convinced their own followers even more that they were the one "true religion".

To sum up, in my opinion, sticking with 1914 was more important in their self-deluded prophecies than the fact that any reasonable person would see it as hogwash. Their teachings are in essence the opposite of the real-world life lessons. They attract more followers with their own deadly potion than they will with honey. Poor chaps!!!

Brad

61

Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

outbutnotdown

I was trying to find a way to express my feelings about this topic and then Alan F said this:

I have no beef with anyone who simply says, "I believe such and such." But I reserve the right to argue against any and all persons who say, "I can prove such and such." I especially reserve the right to argue against those who claim that their belief makes me or others into evil people -- which the Christian faith inherently does.

I have always found it very telling that Christian teachings "inherently" makes other religions' viewpoints wrong/bad/evil. Jesus, as great/peaceful/enlightened as he might have been, was basically creating a following by condemning all other teachers before him. It started with the Jews and then spread to the other nations.

How "great" was that?

Jesus - "Pick up your torture stake and continually follow me!"

Wasn't this an invitation to all masochistic people to start a movement? Then these same people became the leaders of his new movement.

I know my comments area little harsh but how positive a group did he attract?

I'm with Alan F.......... believe what you want to believe.......... but when what you are trying to teach me does me more harm than good..... leave me alone.

Brad

47

Was God in this disaster?

by bikerchic in

jw
friends

i got this in my email and thought i would pass it along.

i know many of us are struggling with so many issues involving god and the bad things that happen.

for me this recent tsunami disaster was over the top, i'm beyond understanding and i'm not going to say this article helped me understand any better but it did show me that x-jw's aren't the only ones who struggle with such questions.

outbutnotdown

heathen,

You seem to only see the tragedy involving those God considers his enemies and don't look at the blessings involved with people he considers friends . Tho people die they always have a hope of living in paradise when the resurrection takes place .

Yikes, buddy, I'm not sure if you are aware of how creepy that sounds. Did the 120,000 people that died in that tragedy all become enemies of God? Or is it your belief that they will be resurrected anyway that makes it not a big deal?

Ever seen a resurrection yet?

I would personally go by what seems to be more likely true than promises that have no evidence of reality.

Brad

47

Was God in this disaster?

by bikerchic in

jw
friends

i got this in my email and thought i would pass it along.

i know many of us are struggling with so many issues involving god and the bad things that happen.

for me this recent tsunami disaster was over the top, i'm beyond understanding and i'm not going to say this article helped me understand any better but it did show me that x-jw's aren't the only ones who struggle with such questions.

outbutnotdown

I haven't read any posts other than the first and second, so my comment is based on nothing more than that.

The original article seems to say it quite profoundly. Disasters just are. Disasters can move us to love more greatly by showing compassion for the victims or they can move us to show more hate by not doing the same thing. IMO, not showing love shows means that we show hate. I know that is somewhat simplistic but it seems true.

I feel much sorrow for the people who have suffered through this tragedy, but I also thank "God" for not having to go through it myself, directly. The evidence of the very kind people who have helped and are helping out seem to prove that we are all connected in spirit.

Brad

47

The universe, designed to support life?

by Elsewhere in

jw
friends

i have heard many creationists say: "just look at the universe!

there are so many things about it that have to be just right for it to be able to support life.

an interesting point, so i did a bit of basic math:.

outbutnotdown

Elsewhere,

A very profound question, with many profound answers. I especially liked this one:

Edit: One of my profs once said: Is the universe adapted to life or is life adapted to the universe?

Which is the answer? Or is it neither?

I just know that I am and my kids are (and they exist partly because of that crazy ex-wife of mine, so I have to acknowledge her existence too... ).

What came first?... God or life?.... If anybody could ever convince me that they knew the answer I would not only follow them but I would make a killing convincing others of my opinion.

Brad (of the "being slightly facetious" class tonight)

29

The 7000 year "Creative Day"

by Fe2O3Girl in

when i was a youngster, the creative days of genesis 1 were always referred to as being 7000 years long.

i believe the 1975 hoo-hah was related to this teaching as 6000 years since adam's creation plus a 1000 year reign neatly wraps up a 7000 years seventh day of rest.. in another thread narkissos quoted a wt article from 1983 that repeats the 7000 year day teaching.

i don't think anyone much younger than me, or anyone who bacame a jw in the last 10-15 years is aware of this belief.

outbutnotdown

Blondie said:

The Bible Students still hold to this teaching of a creative day being 7,000 years long.

Where's RR to explain how they could possibly believe something so outdated?

I remember, in Grade 4, doing a project on dinosaurs where I explained the error of the rest of the others kids whose projects who went by the science books that explained that the dinosaurs had been around for millions of years. I quoted the the Watchtower's explanation of the 7,000 year creative day. Therefore, of course, the dinosaurs were all created from between 6,000 and 13,000 years ago.

When they changed that theory, from my observation in about 1981, when they got rid of the old green Bibles and changed Genesis starting from 46,026 B.C.E. to "In the beginning", it opened my eyes.

Plus I remembered my supidity in Grade 4. I was so embarrassed.

Thank goodness for egos.

Brad

29

The 7000 year "Creative Day"

by Fe2O3Girl in

when i was a youngster, the creative days of genesis 1 were always referred to as being 7000 years long.

i believe the 1975 hoo-hah was related to this teaching as 6000 years since adam's creation plus a 1000 year reign neatly wraps up a 7000 years seventh day of rest.. in another thread narkissos quoted a wt article from 1983 that repeats the 7000 year day teaching.

i don't think anyone much younger than me, or anyone who bacame a jw in the last 10-15 years is aware of this belief.

outbutnotdown

79

What is the true Christian religion / faith?

by evergreen in

i,m going to cut to the chase here .i am not long viewing this website and am fascinated at much of what i have read.currently i attend meetings, but sit there and think of what i now know about the society and its past.i just feel so confused at the moment with religion.. its a bit like who shot jfk ,did man really land on the moon etc .. except it involves all of us( just wish i knew the truth).

the only thing that is keeping me there right now is that all my family are in the "truth" ,,and i cant just stay at home and be shunned which i have recently experienced ( was inactive for a while) .. if i knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that i have found the true faith and discern that it is definately the true faith, i would then make a stand and nothing would stop me .

already i am reading the scriptures without the aid of wt publications and what i am reading is amazing .i am starting to feel that i am now getting closer to god by simply doing this coupled with prayer.. there must be one true faith as there was in the first century.

outbutnotdown

Ah my son, you speaketh many a wordeth but youith dontith sayith anythingith I canith understandith. Do you my son even know the meaning of the words you reply to me my son? * still playin the Ghandi role*

LMFAO @ Gumby.

You kill me buddy. Besides that, your observation has a lot of merit in it

Brad ducks while LT swings at him