Posts by aniron

19

Got the new WT Video last night....so we edited it :) ENJOY

by iblowmynoseatyou in

jw
friends

the new video "pursue goals that honor god" was given to me last night at the hall.

it encourages young people to pursue spiritual goals, and not waste their time on foolish endeavors such as riches or education.

well, at least it used to have that message, until we had our way with it :) .

aniron

They show these "biblical" stories to support their own teachings.

Then why have those guys got beards?

51

Moments at the District Assembly You'll Never Forget...

by integ in

jw
friends

i'll never forget the assembly in madison, wi.

where some poor sap had to tell everyone that he had become addicted to porno on the net, but through much prayerful contemplation and after confessing to the elders he was able to come to "grips" with it.. good luck to that guy with ever getting a fine sister to marry him.. poor guy.

i really felt sorry for him.

aniron

Its amazing how many have had such similar experiences at assemblies and conventions.

Also how it show how contrived some "expereiences" at conventions are.

One year my wife and I went to two different conventions. One was a own District Convention, then we were on holiday and visited friends in another part of the country and went for one day to theirs.

What struck us was that when they did a session about "experiences" two of them were exactly the same as told at our own convention. But told by entirely different people. But it was done as if THEY were the ones who had the "experience".

"Experiences" given at Circuit Assemblies were always of interest to me as I usually knew some involved. Publishers saying how they increased their field service. I'm sitting there thinking "How come we never see you out with us then?"

18

The "bodily reserrection of Christ" doctrine again falls apart under Bible.

by booker-t in

i had once posted on this board that i have been talking to a born-again christian co-worker of mine on the subject of the bodily reserrection of christ doctrine.

i just cannot believe how satan has totally blinded the minds of people with regards to this doctrine.

i have tried just about everything and showed my co-worker every verse that totally destroys the bodily reserrection of christ doctrine (sometimes called the bodily reserrection doctrine) i know the problem is that born-again christians have to hold onto this doctrine because of another false doctrine they teach the "trinity" to explain away scriptures that clearly show jesus is not and has never been equal to jehovah.

aniron

The resurrection of Jesus is a fundamental and essential doctrine of Christianity. The resurrection of Jesus is so important that without it Christianity is false. Paul said in 1 Cor. 15:14 , "and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain." Three verses later, in verse 17, he again says, "and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins." Though there are many subjects with which Christians may disagree and still be considered Christian, this is not one of them. To deny the resurrection of Jesus is to deny the heart of Christianity itself.

However, the problem in the resurrection isn't so much in agreeing that Jesus rose, but in how He rose. Unfortunately, cults attack the resurrection of Christ and reinterpret it in different ways, thereby denying His physical resurrection. We must ask if Jesus rose from the dead in the very same body He died in or did His rise in a spirit body that was not flesh and bones? The answer to this question is vital. It separates true Christians from false systems. Therefore, here is the correct doctrine of Christ's resurrection. I consider it so important, that it must be set off by itself as a statement of truth.

Jesus rose from the dead in the very same physical body that He died in. This resurrected body was a glorified, spiritual body.
The above statement is the correct doctrine of scripture. As such, it stands against the Jehovah's Witness and the Shepherd's Chapel groups that state that Jesus did not rise bodily, but spiritually. Neither group seeks to deny the obvious biblical declaration of Christ's resurrection, but they change the meaning of the resurrection so that it really didn't happen. Did Jesus rise from the dead in the same physical body He died in? Yes!

After the resurrection Jesus was able to eat (Luke 24:42,43 . He showed people His hands and feet with the nail prints in them (Luke 24:51 ; John 20:27 , and people even grabbed His feet and worshipped Him (Matt. 28:9 ). After the reports of Jesus' resurrection were spreading, Thomas, who was doubting the resurrection of Christ, said, "Unless I shall see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe," (John 20:25). Later, Jesus appeared to Thomas and said to him, "Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand, and put it into My side; and be not unbelieving, but believing," (John 20:27 ).

If Jesus' body had not risen, then He would not have feet and hands with the same holes of the nails of the crucifixion. Consider the following verses as further proof that His very body was raised:

"When therefore it was evening, on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst, and *said to them, "Peace be with you." 20And when He had said this, He showed them both His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced when they saw the Lord," (John 20:19-20 <../kjv/John/john_20.htm>).
"And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:38-39 <../kjv/Luke/luke_24.htm>).
It is obvious that Jesus was raised in the same body He died in, with the same holes in His hands and feet. We see that Jesus proclaimed He had flesh and bones? Does a "spirit body" consist of flesh and bones? Not at all.
I have heard it said that Jesus physical body died but His spiritual body was raised. If this is so, then does the spiritual body consist of flesh and bones as well as the physical one? It makes no sense. Also, if Jesus did not rise physically, then what happened to His body? Was it dissolved? Was it moved somewhere? There is no biblical account of what happened to Jesus' body other than that it was raised from the dead. Therefore, His body was raised from the dead.

John 2:19-21
"Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20 The Jews therefore said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body," (John 2:19-21)
The phrase "I will raise" is translated from the single Greek word "egeiro." "Egeiro" is the future, active, indicative, 1st person singular. The active voice in Greek designates who is performing the action. In this case, since it is first person, singular ("I"), Jesus is saying that He Himself would perform the action of the resurrection. This is precisely what the Greek says.

However, some still deny that Jesus rose from the dead physically -- even when examining John 2:19-21 We can clearly see that Jesus prophesied that He would raise up the temple of His body as is clarified in verse 21 by John the apostle who states that Jesus was speaking of "the temple of his body." Therefore, this should be conclusive proof that Jesus rose from the dead in the same body He died in. Clearly, John 2:19-21 shows us that Jesus predicted He would raise His very body -- and He did so. Is this enough to put this issue to rest? You'd think so, but resistance persists.

1 Cor. 15:35,

35But someone will say, "How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?. . .39All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. . .42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
Verse 44 above is used in an attempt to establish the idea that Jesus did not rise physically, but spiritually. Of course, I've already established above that Jesus was raised in the same body He died in, with the same holes in His hands and feet. We also saw that Jesus proclaimed He had flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). Again, does a "spirit body" consist of flesh and bones? The scripture no where declares such a thing.

Paul is not stating that there are two separate bodies to each person, the physical and the spiritual and that after the physical one dies, the second and different spirit body takes over. Rather, when referencing the same body he states, "it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body," (v. 44 ) The "it" is referring to the same body in both clauses, not separate and different ones. This same body becomes a resurrected body -- which is the spiritual body He is referring to. In other words, the spiritual body is the very same body he previously had, though it had been changed into a spiritual one.

"For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory," (1 Cor. 15:53-54 ) Our perishable and mortal bodies put on the imperishable and immortal aspects of the spiritual body which is the physically resurrected and changed body of the believer. Jesus was simply the first fruits of this resurrection (1 Cor. 15:20 ). Therefore, we can see that our future resurrected bodies will be spiritual bodies. But, those spiritual bodies are in fact physical, the same bodies we have now, only glorified. Otherwise, there is no resurrection.

So much for it falling apart under the Bible

24

Why was it blasphemy for Jesus to say he was God's Son?

by jwfacts in

john 10:30 "'you blaspheme', because i said, i am god's son?".

why did the jews feel that it was blasphemy for jesus to say he was god's son.

does this indicate the jews felt he was claiming equality with god?

aniron

Capital punishment was only for serious sins: blasphemy, adultery, etc.. From what I can see in the Bible, saying you had a preexistence isn't blasphemy. However, claiming to be one with God is quite different. In John 10:30-33 Jesus said, "I and the Father are one. The Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning me?" 33"The Jews answered Him, 'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God" (NASB).

Between John 8:59 where the Jews picked up stones to kill Jesus and John 10:30-33 where they again picked up stones to kill him, there is no mention of stoning whatsoever. John 10:31 is referencing back to John 8:59 when it says "The Jews took up stones again to stone Him." Note that they again wanted to kill Him and this time they give the reason why. They said that Jesus was claiming to be God. Now, where would they get that idea? Could it have been where he said, "Before Abraham was, I am"? Could it be from where Jesus said, "I and the Father are one" (10:30). Since they wanted to kill Him both times, it would seem that Jesus had been making some very serious claims. Or was it simply that the Pharisees misunderstood Jesus and that Jesus never did claim to be God?
But, if Jesus was not claiming to be God in John 8:58 and 10:30, then what was it that He said that warranted such a violent response from the Jews in both cases? What phrase from Jesus did the Jews react to and what 'misunderstanding' did they have about what it was Jesus said that led them to claim that he was making Himself out to be God?
The best explanation for the Jews wanting to kill Jesus is because Jesus was claiming equality with God. They considered this blasphemy.

46

It Is Very Cruel of God....

by AllTimeJeff in

thiests like to portray their god as who they want him to be.

please allow me to use some extreme examples: the god of abortion clinic bombers worship a vengeful god and are convinced that this is what they should do to please him.

ditto those who commit hate crimes against homosexuals, or terrorist acts.

aniron

So if there is no God, also lets us also say that there are no Gods - lets not leave Islam, Hindu, Sikhs etc out.

Then all the suffering, all the "evil" , in this world

Is our damn fault.

Therefore until mankind removes the "evil" from within him.

There will never be any peace in this world.

13

Taking the kids to watch fireworks forbidden

by freedomfighter in

we had our meeting on the last day of the year 2006. the previous 5 yrs we had gone to the 9pm fireworks display in our local area with other witness familys.

this was so our children could enjoy the display and the family atmosphere.

( they also had rides and a concert for the kids).. well, back to the meeting.

aniron

I remember years ago a "very theocratic" brother saying a similar thing that we should never be part of these "worldly" celebrations.

Anyway my wife and I went down to riverfront to watch the firework display. (we were not "very theocratic")

There was quite a crowd there. Everyone very happy and having fun.

We stood and watched the display which lasted about 30 minutes I suppose.

Who did my wife spot standing about 15-20 feet away. Yes! none other than , Bro.Theocratic, his wife. 2 sons, and daughter.

Another example of the double standards of some JW's.

10

The Bible admits it is errant

by heretic5 in

according to the bible, the bible contains "leaven".. matthew 13:33 another parable spake he unto them; the kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.. luke 13:21 it is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.. .

according to the bible, "leaven" is to be avoided.. matthew 16:6 then jesus said unto them, take heed and beware of the leaven of the pharisees and of the sadducees.. mark 8:15 and he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the pharisees, and of the leaven of herod.. .

according to the bible, "leaven" can be avoided by sorting the bible.. deuteronomy 19:15 one witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.. matthew 18:16 but if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.. 2 corinthians 13:1 this is the third time i am coming to you.

aniron

Two different illustrative uses of "leaven" . Couldn't you see the difference of use within the scriptures?

Matt13:33

Here is the parable of the leaven, v. 33. The scope of this is much the same with that of the foregoing parable, to show that the gospel should prevail and be successful by degrees, but silently and insensibly; the preaching of the gospel is like leaven, and works like leaven in the hearts of those who receive it.

A woman took this leaven; it was her work. Ministers are employed in leavening places, in leavening souls, with the gospel. The woman is the weaker vessel, and we have this treasure in such vessels.

The heart is, as the meal, soft and pliable; it is the tender heart that is likely to profit by the word: leaven among corn unground does not work, nor does the gospel in souls unhumbled and unbroken for sin: the law grinds the heart, and then the gospel leavens it. It is three measures of meal, a great quantity, for a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. The meal must be kneaded, before it receive the leaven; our hearts, as they must be broken, so they must be moistened, and pains taken with them to prepare them for the word, that they may receive the impressions of it. The leaven must be hid in the heart (Ps. 119:11 ), not so much for secrecy (for it will show itself) as for safety; our inward thought must be upon it, we must lay it up, as Mary laid up the sayings of Christ, Lu. 2:>. When the woman hides the leaven in the meal, it is with an intention that it should communicate its taste and relish to it; so we must treasure up the word in our souls, that we may be sanctified by it, Jn. 17:17
The leaven thus hid in the dough, works there, it ferments; the word is quick and powerful, Heb. 4:12 The leaven works speedily, so does the word, and yet gradually. What a sudden change did Elijah’s mantle make upon Elisha! 1 Ki. 19:20 . It works silently and insensibly (Mk. 4:26 ), yet strongly and irresistibly: it does its work without noise, for so is the way of the Spirit, but does it without fail. Hide but the leaven in the dough, and all the world cannot hinder it from communicating its taste and relish to it, and yet none sees how it is done, but by degrees the whole is leavened.

Thus it was in the world. The apostles, by their preaching, hid a handful of leaven in the great mass of mankind, and it had a strange effect; it put the world into a ferment, and in a sense turned it upside down (Acts 17:6 ), and by degrees made a wonderful change in the taste and relish of it: the savour of the gospel was manifested in every place, 2 Co. 2:14; Rom. 15:19 . It was thus effectual, not by outward force, and therefore not by any such force resistible and conquerable, but by the Spirit of the Lord of hosts, who works, and none can hinder.

Thus it is in the heart. When the gospel comes into the soul, [1.] It works a change, not in the substance; the dough is the same, but in the quality; it makes us to savour otherwise than we have done, and other things to savour with us otherwise than they used to do, Rom. 8:5 . [2.] It works a universal change; it diffuses itself into all the powers and faculties of the soul, and alters the property even of the members of the body, Rom. 6:13 . [3.] This change is such as makes the soul to partake of the nature of the word, as the dough does of the leaven. We are delivered into it as into a mould (Rom. 6:17 , changed into the same image (2 Co. 3:18 , like the impression of the seal upon the wax. The gospel savours of God, and Christ, and free grace, and another world, and these things now relish with the soul. It is a word of faith and repentance, holiness and love, and these are wrought in the soul by it. This savour is communicated insensibly, for our life is hid; but inseparably, for grace is a good part that shall never be taken away from those who have it. When the dough is leavened, then to the oven with it; trials and afflictions commonly attend this change; but thus saints are fitted to be bread for our Master’s table.

Matt 16:6

Here is the caution Christ gave them, to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. He had now been discoursing with the Pharisees and Sadducees, and saw them to be men of such a spirit, that it was necessary to caution his disciples to have nothing to do with them. Disciples are in most danger from hypocrites; against those that are openly vicious they stand upon their guard, but against Pharisees, who are great pretenders to devotion, and Sadducees, who pretend to a free and impartial search after truth, they commonly lie unguarded: and therefore the caution is doubted, Take heed, and beware.

The corrupt principles and practices of the Pharisees and Sadducees are compared to leaven; they were souring, and swelling, and spreading, like leaven; they fermented wherever they came.
Their mistake concerning this caution, v. 7. They thought Christ hereby upbraided them with their improvidence and forgetfulness, that they were so busy attending to his discourse with the Pharisees, that therefore they forgot their private concerns. Or, because having no bread of their own with them, they must be beholden to their friends for supply, he would not have them to ask it of the Pharisees and Sadducees, nor to receive of their alms, because he would not so far countenance them; or, for fear, lest, under pretence of feeding them, they should do them a mischief. Or, they took it for a caution, not to be familiar with the Pharisees and Sadducees, not to eat with them (Prov. 23:6 whereas the danger was not in their bread (Christ himself did eat with them, Lu. 7:36 ; 11:37; 14:1), but in their principles.

22