Posts by Narkissos

20

Will Jehovah Forgive Your Sins If You Don't Confess To Men?

by Englishman in

why is it that jw's insist that you must confess your serious sins to earthly men in order to "put yourself right" with jehovah?.

small isolated sins don't seem to matter much.

however, there does seem to be a finely drawn line that demands confession to elders.. interestingly, once that finely drawn line has been crossed that demands confession to elders, so too has the line of what constitues a disfellowshipping offence.. for example, occasional masturbation is just about one side of that line, do it while someone talks dirty to you and you've crossed that line and entered the disfellowshipping area.

Narkissos

Spotlight: Watchtower June 1st, 2001, p. 30-31.

49

Who loves wine...and which kind?

by codeblue in

jw
friends

ok...time for some fun...it's friday for god sakes...lol.

i love merlot's and chardonnays...of course i love champagne!!!

codeblue

Narkissos

Well... as I was born in Lyons, Beaujolais is what I am most familiar with. Don't judge it by the often lousy "Beaujolais nouveau", it can become a great wine when properly produced and aged, especially in its "crus" (Chiroubles, Morgon, Fleurie are the most delicate).

But the (expensive) top is Burgundy when it is great (not always): an old Pommard or Volnay, or a still older Nuits-Saint-Georges is just my idea of Paradise... Great white wines also, from Chablis (North) to Pouilly-Fuissé (South).

Besides that, there are many cheap and good wines especially in the South-West of France: Côtes-de-Bourg (Bordeaux), Cahors, Minervois...

22

have any of you heard this term?

by kls in

jw
friends

my son was at the gym last week when he saw a guy he knew from school.

i guess they started talking and asked where each other lived.

it came down to that this guy lives three houses down from my daughter.

Narkissos

Awarding "Freedom fries" and "pre-emptive self-defense" sounds politically balanced...

9

Peter in prison in Acts 12:1-17

by Leolaia in

according to lapham, the story of peter imprisoned by herod agrippa in acts 12:1-17 bears striking similarities with the story of jesus' death and resurrection and the story of peter's martyrdom in the martyrdom of peter (later incorporated into the acts of peter).

this raises the intriguing possibility that the original story in acts was of peter's martyrdom in judea at the hands of agrippa, followed by a resurrection appearance and/or angelophany.

the "prison" in acts would refer to peter's tomb.

Narkissos

Interesting, although I'm not inclined thus far to look for any historical event behind Acts 12 or the Martyrdom. The latter may well derive from the former, or both from an original yet fictional martyrdom/resurrection story.

One argument for the second possibility is that Luke consistently avoids describing the death of his main characters (Peter and Paul). It is not the same with second roles. The likely fictional apostle James brother of John (who appears as a Gospel substitute for James the Just) conveniently exits (v. 2) before the distorted yet historical James enters (v. 17). Apparently the tradition of James the Just's death as recorded by Josephus and Hegesippus is split in Acts: the name in 12:2 and the story in chapter 7 (Stephen).

Many or most miracle stories (not only resurrections) in the Gospels and Acts (as well as non-canonical writings) are fashioned after (or allude to) a death-resurrection story, as the ubiquous yet significant use of anistemi (raise) or egeirô (awaken) clearly show. In this regard Acts 12 is no exception.

A subjective final note: strange as it may seem, I can testify Acts 12:1-17 functions pretty well as a kind of symbolical midrash or even Gnostic parable. I remember relating a lot to this story when I left the JWs. It all began as a dream, or a sort of game, where everything looked light, easy and unreal. I found myself able of thinking and discussing things freely, passing doors and gates mentally as it were. And when I came to my senses I was really out and free, without having given much previous thought to the consequences. Certainly this experience of "living the text" influences my personal reading. But I think it also reveals a certain quality of the text as a didactic, spiritual or initiatic story...

39

Newbie here

by bakedmonkeepie in

jw
friends

hi i am new here.

obviously.

:^) this is such a large messaging forum, does anyone have any suggestions on where to start?

Narkissos

Welcome BMP!

20

Jesus Christ - The man who was raised from the dead

by hooberus in

this is the fourth thread in a recent series of posts on the fact that jesus christ is still a man.. the watchtower claims that "the man" jesus christ did not raise from the dead, but remained forever dead (they teach that he was recreated as an angel).

the bible however shows that it was a "man" whom god hath raised from the dead.

"because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Narkissos

Good. Where is that man now? In Dad's palace in the Pleiades?

(Doesn't seem to be but it is a very serious question.)

Btw, I would not swear the WT ever said the resurrected Jesus was an "angel". A "spirit" perhaps... (1 Peter 3:18), or a "spiritual body" (1 Corinthians 15)...

20

Will Jehovah Forgive Your Sins If You Don't Confess To Men?

by Englishman in

why is it that jw's insist that you must confess your serious sins to earthly men in order to "put yourself right" with jehovah?.

small isolated sins don't seem to matter much.

however, there does seem to be a finely drawn line that demands confession to elders.. interestingly, once that finely drawn line has been crossed that demands confession to elders, so too has the line of what constitues a disfellowshipping offence.. for example, occasional masturbation is just about one side of that line, do it while someone talks dirty to you and you've crossed that line and entered the disfellowshipping area.

Narkissos

Spotlight: Watchtower 6/1/01 p. 30-31

Questions
From Readers
In
view of Jehovah?s willingness to forgive sins by the merit of the ransom sacrifice, why is it necessary for Christians to confess to the older men in the congregation?
As can be seen in the case of David and Bath-sheba, Jehovah forgave David?s sin, grave though it was, because of David?s genuine repentance. When the prophet Nathan approached him, David openly confessed: "I have sinned against Jehovah."?2 Samuel 12:13.
However, Jehovah not only accepts a sinner?s sincere confession and extends forgiveness but he also makes loving provisions to help the erring one progress to spiritual recovery. In David?s case, the help came through the prophet Nathan. Today, in the Christian congregation, there are spiritually mature older men, or elders. The disciple James explains: "Is there anyone [spiritually] sick among you? Let him call the older men of the congregation to him, and let them pray over him, greasing him with oil in the name of Jehovah. And the prayer of faith will make the indisposed one well, and Jehovah will raise him up. Also, if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him."?James 5:14, 15.
Skillful elders can do much to ease the pain of heart that is felt by the remorseful sinner. They strive to imitate Jehovah in their dealings with him. They never want to be harsh, even though strong discipline may be warranted. Rather, they compassionately consider the immediate needs of the individual. Patiently they strive to readjust the erring one?s thinking by using God?s Word. (Galatians 6:1) Even if a person does not voluntarily confess his sin, he may still be moved to repentance when approached by the elders, as David was when approached by Nathan. The support thus rendered by the elders helps the erring one to avoid the danger of repeating the sin and the serious consequences of becoming a hardened practicer of sin.?Hebrews 10:26-31.
It is certainly not easy to confess to others deeds that one feels ashamed of and to seek forgiveness. It takes inner strength. Reflect for a moment, though, on the alternative. One man who failed to reveal his serious sin to the elders in the congregation said: "I felt a pain in my heart that would not go away. I increased my efforts in the preaching work, but the sickening feeling remained." He felt that confession to God in prayer was enough, but clearly it was not, for he experienced feelings similar to King David?s. (Psalm 51:8, 11) How much better to accept the loving assistance that Jehovah provides through the elders!

Note the WT carefully avoids the reference to James 5:16 about confessing to one another (not to a certain category of men)... v. 14f do not mention confession of sins, but the fact any sin committed by a person cured from illness will be forgiven...

Contrast the Commentary on the Letter of James (1979: as we know, the author of this book has been disfellowshipped shortly afterwards):

16 Therefore openly confess your sins to one another and pray for one another
How encouraging toward ?openly confessing sins to one another? if the sincerely repentant wrong-doer knows that those to whom he confesses are primarily interested in helping him ?get healed? of his spiritual sickness! However, if such a repentant one felt that the elders would automatically deal with him as one meriting a reprimand before the whole congregation as a ?practicer of sin,? the effect would be quite different. Such a feeling could create a barrier between the congregational shepherds and those sorely needing their help to overcome a drift into continued wrongdoing. On the other hand, where confidence existed that the elders would take into account one?s sincerity in wanting to turn away from the wrong course or attitude, being desirous of never going back to it, this would surely be an encouragement to call upon the older men for assistance, and to respond to their help as would an ailing sheep to that of its conscientious shepherd.?Contrast Psalm 23:1-5 with Ezekiel 34:4.
The tense of the Greek verbs used here has a continuative sense, as saying, ?Make it a practice to confess openly your sins to one another.? Thus, Phillips? The New Testament in Modern English reads: "You should get into the habit of admitting your sins to each other."
James has previously dealt with matters that exemplify the family-like interest and warm concern that should exist within the Christian congregation as a brotherhood. With such a spiritual atmosphere, there should indeed be a confidence among its members that contributes to freeness of expression, and that confidence could be especially notable when it came to acknowledging one?s faults and wrong acts. Christians are shown in Scripture that they can and should have freeness of speech in going to God with their petitions and problems, for they have a loving Father and a compassionate, understanding Helper with the Father, God?s Son. (Heb. 2:17, 18; 4:14-16; 1 John 2:1, 2; 3:19-21; 4:17-19) What is true of the heavenly courts should be reflected in the earthly realm of God?s servants.
This confessing is not like a "confessional" arrangement where one is viewed as obligated to appear and confess all sins in order to obtain absolution from guilt in the eyes of God. Although James had previously made specific mention of the congregation elders with regard to sick ones needing aid, he here says to "confess your sins to one another," not limiting the matter to certain ones within the congregation. While this is so, it is reasonable that the one confessing his sins would seek a person who could be of real help to him in a spiritual way. Along with the desire to unburden himself, he doubtless desires the counsel and prayer of another. Galatians 6:1, 2 speaks of the readjusting of one who takes a false step and shows that it is those "who have spiritual qualifications" who are in a position to do this. Elders should have such qualifications, and others in the congregation may also have these. A woman, for example, may seek the help of a Christian sister, possibly someone older than she is, as is indicated by Paul?s counsel at Titus 2:3-5. Thus the source of the help is not limited to a certain few; the important thing is that the person have "spiritual qualifications." James shows that the object and result of this humble seeking for help should be a brotherly (or a sisterly) interest manifested in prayer to Jehovah on behalf of the one confessing the fault.
The expression "to one another" is most appropriate since all must honestly recognize their own sinful nature, thereby eliminating any basis for pride or superiority in responding to the needs of the erring one. (Compare Luke 18:9-14; 1 John 1:8-10.) Rather than superiority, there obviously should be a sense of mutual compassion, all having their own particular faults and weaknesses. The one extending help now should realize that he may someday need help himself. Along with calling for humility, such open confessing of faults can also serve as a restraint toward sinning. It leads away from a secretive course of life that deprives one of the balancing effect that the counsel of others can provide.

20

the man with the key

by boatman in

could any one tell why god gave peter some keys was it to open things or close them

Narkissos

I apologise to Narkissos or speaking for him earlier. I was just so excited that we seemed to share the same opinion in another thread.

No problem at all Pete! I just wanted to make clear I had not yet read Lapham and his work might change my (our?) views. From what I have seen thus far, I still think the Peter file is very thin if not empty until the last quarter of the 1st century. The Pauline "Cephas" himself might be drastically reduced if we cut off 1 Corinthians 15 and Galatians from this time period. The fact is there later appears an important Petrine tradition overlapping the border between the Great Church and judeo-christians, which will be used by the Roman Church although part or most of it probably originates in Syria.

36

Jesus and the Samaritan Woman

by Leolaia in

twice (john 4:29, 39), the samaritan woman is said to have reported to her townspeople that a man had told her ?everything?

one may surmise that those whom she told knew rather well precisely what the things were that she had done, for they followed her urging to see this remarkably perceptive stranger.

precisely what did jesus tell her that so moved her and others, and how did he go about it?

Narkissos

Fascinating indeed.

This reminds me the very strange feminine expression associated with Simon in Acts 8:

"This man is the power of God that is called Great (hè dunamis tou theou he kaloumènè Megalè)"

Sounds as the Mary/Helena character has been eliminated but her ghost still moans deep in the texture of the text...

I used to hate "Luke" for his shallow theology. More and more I appreciate the incredible number of threads he has (unwittingly?) left showing...

20

Will Jehovah Forgive Your Sins If You Don't Confess To Men?

by Englishman in

why is it that jw's insist that you must confess your serious sins to earthly men in order to "put yourself right" with jehovah?.

small isolated sins don't seem to matter much.

however, there does seem to be a finely drawn line that demands confession to elders.. interestingly, once that finely drawn line has been crossed that demands confession to elders, so too has the line of what constitues a disfellowshipping offence.. for example, occasional masturbation is just about one side of that line, do it while someone talks dirty to you and you've crossed that line and entered the disfellowshipping area.

Narkissos

"Sins" "forgiven" by "God", or the combination of the three emptiest words of Christian language? No wonder the need has been felt to bring something real into the picture:

confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed (James 5:16)

The reciprocal "one another" rules out a special class of priests or elders (the same word in fact, since "priest" derives from presbuteros = "elder").

I was amazed when I noticed "forgiveness/remission of sins" was altogether absent from Pauline theology (the word just appears in the quotation of Psalm 32 in Romans 4:7), first showing up in post-pauline (Colossians 1:14; Ephesians 1:7). Pauline "justification" was a very different notion, more meaningful to me.