It wasn?t until I stumbled across this board that I found out about the generation bit. This is several years ?after? I left!
You know after verifying for myself the ?new light? on so many points of doctrine I can?t help but wonder, why does new light always seem to appear after the fact? It would have more impact if it happened BEFORE hindsight. Like in 1950 a new light happens, generation really doesn?t mean people in WW1 but.........(list new light here). Now that is something, this after the fact deal is more like, opps goofed again.
Jahna
Posts by Jahna
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31The New Light that burned me
by czarofmischief ini was reading the 1975 thread, and considered posting on it, but since i wasn't born until the carter administration, i don't think i really can comment on it.
i can sympathize, however.. you see, i was raised in the truth.
rarely missed a meeting.
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Jahna
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36
JWs and Clothing
by the_classicist inwhere i live, its not usual for people to "dress up," especially business people and executives, you are more likely to see them with a button up shirt, khakis, and one of those fleece vests on.
so, on the whole, jws look very out of place wearing their cheap suits (though a few elders didn't wear cheap suits and they made that known, "look at this, i got a spot on my new $200 designer shirt" -- really, something like this happened).
but what i did notice is that, in my area, dressing guidelines usually weren't followed, or enforced for that matter, for good looking women.
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Jahna
Me getting ready for field service one part of Canada. Forcast high of the day -40c (you read that one right!). Requisite underware, thick stockings, socks, track pants (yes track pants), full skirt over pants (have to wear that skirt). Looking like you gained 50 lbs you WALKED from door to door.
Me getting ready for field service another part of Canada. Forcast high of -5c. Socks, trousers, high boots and very long coat, to cover up the fact, your NOT wearing a skirt!
There is unity among God?s people, right?
I still have my ankle length coat!
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23
Nursing Mom's and Meetings
by jeanniebeanz indoes anyone here remember nursing their babies at the meetings and/or assemblies before the laws that protected the ability to do so in public were passed in the us?
was it any easier to do in other parts of the world?.
jean
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Jahna
My first year nursing my oldest was spent in the only stall on the toilet of ladies room, in our small Kingdom Hall. Ironically the only thing between the main hall and washroom was that tacky paneling from the 60's, didn?t make for good sound proofing. If your baby was older then 3 mths, it hung half way into the wash basin when placed on the change table. If you changed your baby you also blocked the doorway. It was lovely! I once got literally stuck holding my oldest on the potty while pregnant! It was that small.
Circuit Assemblies were chairs lined up along the furthest walls of the ladies room, with speaker echoing, doors slamming, toilets flushing and kids screaming. It was sweltering winter and summer. For my third we built a new hall and things were much better!
District Assemblies were refurbished mens rooms with chairs backing up onto the urinals, which were papered off for hygiene?! Babies tended to rip them to shreds by the end of the first day. Many women used these "Mother?s Room" for personal ummm emergency use as the line ups for the ladies room were often to long. Made for a nice quiet place. This was a vast improvement over my first assembly with my oldest, where we sat under the hot sun for 4 days and nursed in a dark dusty curtained off portion of the race track! In the heat! No strollers!
God what was I thinking! I won?t even go into the husband who thought 1 month old babies ate only during breaks, mom could pump at whim (in bathroom stall), babies never should cry during the meetings (it?s my fault baby won?t take a bottle), and oh yes "the men?s room don?t have any place to change babies (ever!)...why are you so grumpy."
Jahna
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40
Not Having Kids in 'This System....'
by lonelysheep inone of my former bs conductors and her husband decided when they got married, they wouldn't have any kids 'in this system'.
i know the world could be better, but i see no reason not to have children if that's what your wishes really are....and you're able to for that matter.
she just turned 34 and really wants to have a child.
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Jahna
I had my first child in the mid 80's and yes, a lot of people were deciding not to have kids in this system. I guess some thought we were nuts but never said anything to my face. I do recall assemblies (seemed like every one of them for years) talked about pioneering a lot and not having children, the be like Noah thing kept coming up. I also remember, feeling so guilty for having my son and being soon pregnant with my next child. I also remember being up at nights terrified that ?when persecution hits, being pregnant/with a baby would be so much harder on me.? The society kept making me feel like a traitor to God, and his people by being so darn selfish by having my kids and not taking up the full time ministry. Aux Pioneering with two kids never counted btw, it wasn?t enough!
During the time I recall so many couples, young and older having opps babies. Even a lovely CO couple who went into missionary work. Far to many of them were crushed that a baby was on the way and there was nothing you can do about it.
Looking back, now that my oldest is reaching adulthood I wonder, what if I heeded the warning? At nearly 40, would I now be kicking myself?
Scary
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106
Just got back from the 2004-2005 circuit assembly here are a few thoughts.
by PaNiCAtTaCk inupon arriving i ran into lots of old friends and really enjoyed seeing everyone and visiting.
they dont know that im currently struggling with doubts about the organization and they think that im the same old zealous brother.
i couldnt help but feel a sence of guilt visiting with them about our current number of publishers and how many we had pioneering ect.
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Jahna
I had to go through this
?Our district overseer came from Michigan. He brought out that during george washingtons day they had a procedure called "blood letting" where they would rid the body of blood. Now they have blood transfusions.?
Interesting, science is again using leeches, it?s been in the news lately as medical science found it is beneficial for some ailments.
?The brother advised sisters to ask themselves before they wear something " Is this too low cut? Is this going to cause someone to have unclean thoughts? (I almost laughed at that!)?
I about busted a gut when reading this one too. Hum a hundred years ago displaying a mere ankle was enough to put a man in arrest. Just thinking about said ankle could and did do it too. So, define low cut. Knees are common sights now as is cleavage! Not showing it may tend to cause arrest! Besides, don?t these fine brothers have self control?
?They warned against being to critical of our congregation.?
Why, we might open our eyes to what is really going on in the congregation?
This one was good
?The district overseer said that he was visiting with a man at the door and he read some books from the society and that they were college level quality. He said that we were getting thousands of dollars worth of education for free and come to find out this man had been the HEAD MAN AT OXFORD UNIVERSITY. (everyone in the audience gasped with excitement at this point) ?
This isn?t the first time I heard this comment, in fact it was used several years ago. Like others have stated, no one can confirm this quote. Also after watching a Canadian program where they interviewed US professors at an Ivy league collage about Canada, I found, you can?t trust even the educated to know anything. (We still put our elderly on ice flows btw *w*) The WT has to prop up their publications to be more then what it is. Or, who would read it.
?"WELCOME TO THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF AIDS"?
Well isn?t the WT society so smart to get this one. You know for ?college level? publications they are stupid. This is an Urban legend, and not the first time I have heard the society use this one too. The society has jumped on every Urban legend they can get their hands on and use to support their point of view. Even today my JW parents have to be shown not everything you read is truth, how many times have I shown them the Urban legend website to show them, hey that just ain?t true! Like someone said, today, the man would be sued! And imprisoned!
You know, this recap sounds like almost every assembly I ever went to, not much has changed. Let?s rally the audience with some great ?stories? encourage, while discouraging then, finish off with the great battle cry of ?listen to Jeh.....er Us?
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19
who can you trust when talking about organizational questions?
by Buck inive been studying a while and my gf is a baptized jw.
she wants me to get baptized.
but ive got many questions that ive never got satisfactory answers for.
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Jahna
Hello Buck
The Watchtower prides themselves on being God?s only channel and the bearer of truth. That is a mighty powerful statement, therefore the ball is squarely in their court to now explain and prove this statement. If they honestly had truth, this would not be an issue. They would not get upset because they are confident of their truth. They would also have intelligent, logical and reasonable answers to all of your questions. Watchtower truth is so firmly felt by the rank in file it should have the same concrete foundations as gravity, and that is how soundly those who explain it to you should feel. You can not doubt the existence of gravity.
An old Rom proverb states, ?those who would make you afraid, are afraid themselves.? How perfect is that statement in regards to the Watchtower. See, they make you afraid to question your doubts, because they are afraid they can not answer you. Issues such as the NGO, are rather difficult to squirm out of, proof exists and their excuse fairly thin, their own publications side against them. Their very own principles (as my Grandfather always said, ?there maybe no rule for it, but there is always a principle.?) haunt them. They are afraid in light of this age of information (see the squashing of the Quotes site ect), now they must make you very afraid if they are to bring you into their fold.
Shake off your fear, stand fast and demand valid answers. You may loose your relationship because if it, but can you deny yourself, your concept of truth for anyone? In any and every area of life, only you can determine what is best for you. If this is to be your faith, then it must be as rock solid as gravity. Nothing less is worthy of your time, attention and life.
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21
What makes a cult a "cult"?
by XQsThaiPoes inwhen does a high control group cross the line bettween being socially acceptable to being a "cult"?.
why do the marines or dod or cia earn special pleading to exempt them from being a "cult" when they seem to have most of the signs of being a cult.
is it simply the notion that theoretically they should be protecting our interest.
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Jahna
I did some quick reading yesterday regarding cults, on the internet. I looked at several website from different types of sources. Like anything, where the source is coming from will often bend the subject matter towards one end or another, so getting a variety of information sources tends to help you find the midline.
Like XQ I find that a midline of definitions can and do apply to a variety of groups, religions and sects at one time or another. Cult is actually a relative term. Certainly every mainstream religion at one point in time or another fits even the extreme definition of cult. For example the Spanish Inquisition period of history and the Catholic Church.
I think it is only part of human nature (because it is so abundant) to use what ever means is available to control people. The Church again was infamous for keeping Joe Public errr Serf Public in ignorance so that they are more impressionable and controllable. The Church thrived on power, and oppressed all those that stood against it. So for those that needed to control the people, our lovely rulers to be, what better way to gain control over people then to keep them in ignorance, push a great party line, and scare the living pants off of them by threatening all sorts of nasty things while at the same time, promise them the world everlasting for total and absolute obedience. This has played out thousands of time over and over again over the course of human history. In each and every case I believe a good argument could be presented to insist that XY or Z was a cult.
So are terrorists, Kamikaze Pilots, Zealots, Left wing, right wing, ect ect cults? I don?t honestly know, I do know that there are aspects that do say yes, and some logical thinking that says no. Any group, be it the PTA or Extreme Cults R Us can be dangerous or become dangerous. Not by themselves, but rather, the people behind who and what they are, and certainly the motivations behind them.
We use cult now because it shocks you, you have an immediate picture of Jim Jones come to mind and your not only horrified by the picture but it disgusts you. So if you want to shock someone, use that one four letter word it speaks volumes. Accuracy will vary.
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E-Watchman is revealed???
by PurePeople indoes anyone know about this???
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http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm?id=311102&categoryid=2967&startcat=1&threadid=1800647
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Jahna
Considering I am a skeptic when it comes to information found on the internet, I did a domain whois myself, and the information I got was not even close to what was listed on the above mentioned thread:
Registration Service Provided By: Active-Domain Co.
Contact: registrar@active-domain.com
Visit:
Domain name: e-watchman.com
Registrant Contact:
Timothy Kline ([email protected])
+1.5173811917
Fax:
3209 Dobie Rd
Mason, MI 48854-9422
US
Source: http://123cheapdomains.com/check-status/whois.html and http://order.active-domain.com/register
I also did a reverse look up on phone number listed, and low and behold I got:
Canadian Branch Office (Jehovah Witnesses)
Hwy 7th
Georgetown, ON L7G 1A1
(905) 873-4100
Source: http://411ca.whitepages.com/reverse_lookup.pl
Since all of this information lacks any kind of foundation I can only assume the rest of it is bogus as well.
Jahna
Part of the orginal information used for my own lookups
Ensin e-watchman whois:
WHOIS information for e-watchman.com:
Registration Service Provided By: Active-Domain Co.
Contact: registrar@active-domain.com
Visit:
Domain name: e-watchman.com
Registrant Contact:
Walter Reyes ([email protected])
905-873-4100
Fax:
115 Front St. E. Suite #192
Toronto, ON M5A-4S6
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Jahna
I was like most JW?s very critical of anything that was different then the way I was taught to believe. I fell hook line and sinker into the misinformation they taught. Once I left and felt I was doomed anyways, I began to look at other belief structures, my eyes were opened to diversity. Every faith, culture, people across the globe has good and bad points about themselves as a group and as a person. I have personally found it to be a wonderful thing and embrace diversity. I love to see how different and honestly how similar most things are across the globe and time. So yes, I am very much more tolerant of others and what they believe then I could ever possible be before. For not only have I learned tolerance, I have also learned to accept diversity and show it respect, even if I don?t? agree with it for myself. Such as being a JW any more. I also expect the same from those close in my life. For I hope that by accepting openly other choices, I hope they in turn accept mine. Jahna "Forever trusting in who we are, and nothing else matters" Metallica
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31
Non-JW teacher needing advice
by Teacher inhi there, i'm new to the board and have turned here for advice.
i am a new teacher and have a child in my class who is a jw.
as i know nothing about the religion i thought i would ask here.. i am aware that he will not be able to take part in re or religious assemblies or christmas activities.
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Jahna
Cult or not, until the time comes that ALL religion forever forbidden in the house, ALL religion is banned world wide, ALL cultural differences are done away with globally, you will have people that just don?t believe, practice or otherwise, think like you do.
Children of JW?s, Jews, Muslims, Atheists ect are different, they may or may not celebrate Christmas or any other holiday, and we certainly don?t allow for other religious holidays. (Ever have Kwanza a pubic day off like Easter?) These children are not to blame, they are learning from their parents who are only trying to do what they feel is in their children?s best interest. While JW?s may have hurt us personally, they are no worse then any other group out there. Muslims do not celebrate Christmas they are not traumatized for life by it. Amish children never play with X Box, they live through it. It?s when the child gets to be of age that they will make their choice about what to practice as a faith. By respecting all diversity found globally in the class room and elsewhere your giving them the ability to judge what they believe without prejudice and pre conceived notions of hatred.
Bigotry starts by stirring up negative emotions about something different. For example all Islam is bad because of terrorist? True or false? All JW?s are not bad because of a few bad apples, they exist everywhere. Cult is a bad word, it may or may not fit in this case and it?s only stirring up negative emotions towards the innocent children that our teachers must teach.
Let?s teach children to have respect for themselves, and others, by showing them respect despite their differences.
Jahna