Posts by Andee

8

Family and its importance

by Shane in

disfellowshiping or ex-comunication puts great strain on family members, it has been successfully used by other religious groups jehovah's witness's are no exception.

any group or government that can successfully put a wedge between family members is a threat to the whole family of man.. by using such phrases or reasons as: its for their own good or its being done cause we love them, or we wakening them to their senses, are simply rationalizing their actions.. think about this: monkeys shun at times one of their own, but the one shunned most of the time dies from it; are we higher than monkeys in love?

humans also die if shunned or become mentally sick depressed to the point of at times taking their own life, because if one has been a witness or other shunning group for all or most of their life who is now a support group for them?

Andee

Hi Shane,

Another point I would like bring up.

It's just how many people stay IN the Org in order not to lose their families. I know of some family members that do this. There is also a heavy burden in leading a double life. The emotional stress of living like that is enormous. Going along with the "party line" when amongst JWs, yet, in private, being disgusted by it all. Going for years like that, day in and day out. Granted, it is a choice, but that someone would be placed in a position to choose between the two is appalling.

I also agree with California Sunshine. Even though they are intellectually and emotionally held hostage by the JW's, we still must hold them responsible for their actions (shunning). There is a big stalemate in my extended family over this. After 20 years of shunning, suddenly, my JW relatives want contact again. However, us "worldlys" want an apology. Most just can't do it. It's the ole "Jehovah made me do it" excuse.

Stephenw20,

I appreciate you attempting to get people to look beyond the hurt and pain they feel in their heart and, perhaps, elevate their thinking to a higher level. That even when we are in the depths of emotional suffering we can be assured that we will grow and become to a better understand of what the experience means to our entire life. Hopefully, we can put it into a positive context. Yes, it is a choice.

That being said, I cannot deny the wrenching pain one feels when one is completely cut off from family after one has committed absolutely NO evil. Family that, granted, certainly wasn't perfect, but at least TALKED to each other.

Just my thougths.

Andee

"head up in the clouds with feet firmly planted in the ground"

9

confidential confession

by anon in

jw
friends

this is a story appearing on abc's news website.. " http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/dailynews/religionconfession_010802.html.

i post it here since it relates to what elders could/should do in child abuse cases.. .

aa confession ruled confidential.

Andee

I find the court ruling appalling. Having spent a number of years in various 12 step programs, I can affirm that AA, and other related 12 a step programs, endorse the idea that one must have a "high power" or God in order to get sober. That being said, you can make that God who or whatever you want.

The only REAL qualification for being a leader in the organization is to have a number of years of sobriety. I have been to enough meetings to know that some of the people that attend and run them are pretty scary.

There are also similarites between the WTS and AA. Granted with AA one can come and go as they please without any real conseguenes. However, the general attitude is that of "this is the ONLY way you will be able to stop drinking". You MUST attend so many meetings per week and that EVERYTHING else in life is secondary to sobriety. If one stops going to meetings then they are doomed to start drinking (using, etc) again. Some individuals have been going for over 20 years. Like WTS it becomes their whole life.

Most Alcohol and drug rehabs base their treatment programs on the 12 steps of AA. They also make it manditory to attend meetings. The problem with this is that because of the anonymity of AA no one really knows if it works or not, because no accurate studies can be done as to it's affectiveness. In fact, most hospital treatment programs assume that their first time patients will drink (use) again.
That it takes many times of "going out there" before they "make the decision" to become clean and sober.

I have personal experiences with this. However, I will spare everyone the details. Just wanted to give a little inside info about AA.

Andee

14

Happiness

by philo in

jw
friends

the wtbts is looking to the perfection of the obedient humans in happiness.

but they have also acknowledged the psychological truth that happiness is not a state we can arrive at, but is a process of change, transformation and book selling.. my question is, is the idea of humanity ever being perfectly happy fundamentally flawed?

do we need to be discontent as humans in order to continue human progress, transformation etc and gain temporary happiness along the way?

Andee

Philo,

I agree with you about the movie Pleasantville getting boring fast! It was the underlying message of it that always stuck with me.
Besides, I paid my money and I was going to sit through it, dammit!LOL

I could go on forever (and hopefully this post won't go on forever) about the philsophical idea of happiness. However, I'm here to live life NOW, and being the practical creature that I am, how does "happiness" manifest itself in my everyday life.

I think most confuse happiness with contentment. Contentment being that, for the most part, we are satified with the choices we have made and the direction our life has taken. I think it is important that a life have direction and meaning. I have that right now. I'm a housewife and stay at home Mommy. My life right now is dedicated to raising two decent human beings (my children) that will, hopefully, will be released into this world to do good things. Sounds trite? Maybe. However, I actually do not see anything more important in this world to do, than that.

Does that mean I'm "happy" all the time? Heck no! Especially when my 5 year old son spills a whole bottle of apple juice on the kitchen floor, and even after mopping up many times, my shoes still stick to the tiles. Or when I learned that my eldest was gravely ill, and may lose her life (she didn't), those were some very sad days for me. Happiness seemed lost to me forever. However, when I find a forgotten $20 that was stashed away, or my kid tells me he loves me, my happiness abounds!

I think also our attitude about life in general makes a difference about whether or not we are content. I think if one goes looking for all the bad without taking in the good there will be little happiness.

I disagree with Stephanw20 post of removing all human thinking. We all have benefitted from it greatly. Medicines that save and technology that improves lives. Why it is that everything negative is attributed to "human thinking", yet, nothing positive is?

Frenchy, liked your last post. I think I will just keep my little parasite, thank you very much

Andee

14

Happiness

by philo in

jw
friends

the wtbts is looking to the perfection of the obedient humans in happiness.

but they have also acknowledged the psychological truth that happiness is not a state we can arrive at, but is a process of change, transformation and book selling.. my question is, is the idea of humanity ever being perfectly happy fundamentally flawed?

do we need to be discontent as humans in order to continue human progress, transformation etc and gain temporary happiness along the way?

Andee

I'm with Frenchy on this one.

I will also add, without sorrow there is no joy.

Did you see the movie "Pleasantville"? Two kids go back in time to a TV show made in the 50's. Everyone is happy and everything is perfect. Life is black and white and has a "sanitary" feel to it. To me, it also came across as quite unsettling. Of course, as the characters became more complex the movie(or TV show, i.e. life) becomes more colorful. I won't go into the plot too much, but some really want to maintain the "black and whiteness" and become very hostile to those that are becoming colorful. It's a lot like the WTBTS.

To be human is to be, like Frenchy said, "contaminated". Without it we have no humanity. We become "Stepford People".

Andee

42

Hey Women! Faithful Slave Sez You're Dumb!

by metatron in

jw
friends

oh, this is gonna be fun!.

the august 22, 1967 awake has an article entitled.

"i do not permit a woman to exercise authority.

Andee

Musky,

I was responding to you comparing the Watchtower, and it's writings, which are suppose to be divinely inspired by God and not to be questioned, with a worldly magazine.

If I to speak out openly against the WT and it's "inspired" word, I would risk being DF'd by the Org and the shunning of family and friends.

I just found it odd that you would compare the two. Granted, the subject is attitude towards women, however, you, as well as I, know that inside the Org women are still considered subservient to men.

To me, it's like comparing apples and oranges.

Also,

I always understood that the so called faithful and discreet slave feels they are imperfect , and therefore some things they print are also imperfect.

Musky, can you define "Perfect" for me? Until one can define it, one certainly cannot say they are "imperfect".

So, I will offer some alternatives that better describe the "faithful and discreet slave":

Incorrect

Inaccurate

Mistaken

Erroneous

Flawed

Amiss

Defective

And just plain Wrong.

However, I do agree with you on this:

General attitudes in the public have had a lot of sway in the watchtower over the years.

IMHO, if the rank and file began to leave in droves because they wanted to start celebrating Christmas and birthdays, the GB would be scrambling like crazy to shed "new light" on that subject.

Andee

42

Hey Women! Faithful Slave Sez You're Dumb!

by metatron in

jw
friends

oh, this is gonna be fun!.

the august 22, 1967 awake has an article entitled.

"i do not permit a woman to exercise authority.

Andee

Musky,

I never heard of BH&G instructing their readers to shun their family members that no longer subscribe.

Give me a break.

Andee

42

Hey Women! Faithful Slave Sez You're Dumb!

by metatron in

jw
friends

oh, this is gonna be fun!.

the august 22, 1967 awake has an article entitled.

"i do not permit a woman to exercise authority.

Andee

In order for me to be insulted, I have to value the givers opinion.

Holding my head, abet, smaller brain, high!

Andee

7

How many time did you take to be cured?

by Nicolas in

i mean, when i read something of the watchtower, i still have sometime this old fear of armaggeddon.

i don't know why i have this fear since i found a lot of proofs that they aren't the true religion.

sometime, i would like to erase all these bad things that me and my family had in the jw and begin again but unfortunately, it's impossible.

Andee

Hi Nicolas,

It took years for me to let go for the whole Armageddom fear.

For the most part, the fear is gone. It gets better as time goes by, and it WILL go by!

Welcome Nicolas!

Andee

11

Raised as JW

by ReverendRoy in

as a former jehovah's witness i can both empathize and sympathize with you and the many others that have written here.

i apologize for the long post.

although i have posted this under a different heading, commie chris recommended a new toipic, thanks!.

Andee

Hi Jon,

Welcome to the board.

Hi Jon,

Welcome to the board!

I have often wondered why "Jehovah" would creat drives so strong, such a masturbation, and then make it a transgression against him.

Of course! the WTS would need to dangle the carrot of paradise in front of people to get them to give that up! However, it probably doesn't work very well.

Andee

2

Running ahead of..

by Norm in

jw
friends

as all of us who have a past in the watchtower society and know their history, running ahead of jehovah is just about the worst thing you can do.

i know this first hand because in december 1988 i was dfd because i put it to the committee in no uncertain terms that the watchtower chronology the year 1914 and the 1914 generation was pure fantasy.

in 1995 it became clear that even the idiots in brooklyn/patterson shared my views.

Andee

Norm,

You illustrate how brainwashed one has to be to swallow this ludicrous
written garbage the WTS puts out.

I find your posts illuminating. (Not to be confused with "new light")

Andee