Fisherman

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Posts by Fisherman

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  17

  Will JWs throw you under the bus if you have a transfusion?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mark writes.

  "if a person accepts a blood transfusion, the jehovah’s witness elders are required to “investigate” to see if the person is sorry for “cowardly” saving their life.

  if the person doesnt beg and grovel to the elders for allowing the doctor to save their life (or that of their child) then the elders can take this as a sign that he/she has disassociated from the congregation - and tell the congregation to start shunning them.. if someone willingly takes blood, perhaps because of being under extreme pressure, the committee should obtain the facts and determine the individual’s attitude.

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  Fisherman

  As in all matters of "wrongdoing", repentence or the lack of it is key.

  In all matters such as $exual immorality except bt, most of the time the verdict is unrepentant followed by df. The key in bt is that the sinner doesn’t show defiance or says that wt is wrong about the doctrine, for example. If that is the case then obviously the sinner doesn’t want to be a JW and is disassociated as you pointed out. Other than that, if the sinner says he was afraid or gives some other reason why, admitting his guilt, that is sufficient evidence of repentance to the tribunal . WT won’t test the truthfulness of his words as is the case with other sins. Obviously, a JW will refuse a bt if he can help it but under the pressure of the moment he might give in, so prima facie the case is about weakness and much mercy and compassion and understanding is extended and usually it is the sinner that feels very bad about it. But it the sinner starts carrying on that the wt is wrong or justifies what he did, it becomes clear he is not a JW because JW believe and practice different.
  
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  17

  Will JWs throw you under the bus if you have a transfusion?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mark writes.

  "if a person accepts a blood transfusion, the jehovah’s witness elders are required to “investigate” to see if the person is sorry for “cowardly” saving their life.

  if the person doesnt beg and grovel to the elders for allowing the doctor to save their life (or that of their child) then the elders can take this as a sign that he/she has disassociated from the congregation - and tell the congregation to start shunning them.. if someone willingly takes blood, perhaps because of being under extreme pressure, the committee should obtain the facts and determine the individual’s attitude.

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  Fisherman

  No. Not even 50 years ago. At most, private reproof. What is hard is how the individual feels believing that others won’t think highly of him.
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  42

  Just courius, some questions about the past

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  curious.

  time goes by so fast.

  who remembers 1975, the ray franz incident, the generation change in 1995, the blood fractions, alternative service, participation in ochr, aid afrique, the historical research by james pellechia, jolene chu and johannes stephan wrobel?

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  Fisherman

  I remember the music.
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  21

  Where is Reinhard Lengtat?

  by jst2laws in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry for the posting error below.. my wife is reading crisis of conscience now.

  this is good news because i know i will have someone to talk to when im caught and dfd.

  but in her reading she is recognizing most of the names ( we were there at bethel during the 70s as a married couple) and asked what happened to reinhard lengtat?

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  Fisherman

  Bernie Getz’s face and slim appearance reminded me of RL.
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  28

  UKRAINE: are things SO bad......

  by BoogerMan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ....that fighting-fit young ukrainian men are having to be evacuated - to accommodation in dublin city centre?.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqq2aj0lohu.

  beats the rubber dinghies, i suppose..

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  Fisherman

  I don't care if they are legal or illegal immigrants. I just don't want the UK population to keep expanding.

  I know what you mean but the powerful don‘t care. More immigrants translates into more money and control and power.
  
  
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  28

  UKRAINE: are things SO bad......

  by BoogerMan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ....that fighting-fit young ukrainian men are having to be evacuated - to accommodation in dublin city centre?.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqq2aj0lohu.

  beats the rubber dinghies, i suppose..

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  Fisherman

  Countries are not sending trillions $$ and taking in refugees for free and for humanitarian reasons, they would be emptying out Somalia and other poor countries if that was the case. So what are they getting out of it and how will the average citizen John Doe benefit at the of the day when the bill is paid?
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  11

  Any news on Blood?

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i haven’t seen anything in the news lately and wt position remains the same, so no change.

  except, that when there is massive blood loss, my family mds have told me that without a bt there is practically zero chance of pulling through—short of an act of god.

  jw know this and have decided beforehand.

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  Fisherman

  TD, PN is Rabbinical misunderstanding of :

  “So you may live by them.” Jesus never taught that interpretation. The words are not implying that someone under the law was released from law if obedience would result in his death such as dying of hunger then eating infected pork unknowingly to live by them. Also, the work Jesus allowed on the Sabbath was the same work Jews of that era were already doing such as untying animals to get them water, etc. Jesus said nothing about only observing the law when it resulted in life.
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  11

  Any news on Blood?

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i haven’t seen anything in the news lately and wt position remains the same, so no change.

  except, that when there is massive blood loss, my family mds have told me that without a bt there is practically zero chance of pulling through—short of an act of god.

  jw know this and have decided beforehand.

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  Fisherman

  sanctity of the gift of life and the severe penalty for unjustly depriving another human of that gift
  questionable (human) reasoning on what commands against eating blood might have meant in the context of modern medicine.

  That is true IF wt directive is not coming from God as WT claims to be directed by holy spirit and the FDS, Jesus “brothers” on earth, the wife of Christ, kingdom heirs and kings in heaven, the seed. But if wt is the entity it claims to be -and JW are convinced that holy spirit directs “God’s organization”-then there is no way around the scripture because God is the source of wt decisions.

  TD, you make a powerful argument even considering the argument that since wt has been wrong before, logically they can be wrong again —as you point out the variable of human error—but JW are mentally convinced.
  
  
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  11

  Any news on Blood?

  by Fisherman in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i haven’t seen anything in the news lately and wt position remains the same, so no change.

  except, that when there is massive blood loss, my family mds have told me that without a bt there is practically zero chance of pulling through—short of an act of god.

  jw know this and have decided beforehand.

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• 

  Fisherman

  I haven’t seen anything in the news lately and wt position remains the same, so no change. Except, that when there is massive blood loss, my family mds have told me that without a BT there is practically zero chance of pulling through—short of an act of God. JW know this and have decided beforehand. Since there is a considerable risk of infection and a potential risk of deadly infection or reaction although the other option is the big sleep, that fear of potential infection is very great. JW are not concerned about DF. That’s just propaganda from opposers. The big concern is the fear of infection. Figure a person is infected, after he will always regret not having trusted in God, and maybe he would have made it. That’s how people think. People remember AIDS shocking news, and now covid. So, JW mind frame doesn’t want to take any chances. Most important, JW believe that BT violates God’s law stated in Acts and unlike the Jewish principle of Pikuah Nephesh, there is no way around the scripture that JW interprets as proscribing bt. There are different arguments that challenge JW interpretation but the JW fds still stands on the same interpretation at present.

  There have been very interesting threads on blood discussing some aspect of JW belief and practice in the past from TD, Marvin Shilmer, cofty and others, but those arguments are not persuasive because the JW position remains unchanged. Maybe I’ve said something that is incorrect or not exactly how JW are doing it but that’s what seems are JW beliefs. Without hesitation a JW will not accept blood treatment because JW believe that doing so displeases God.
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  23

  freedom of speech and loss of rights

  by enoughisenough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was thinking about freedom of speech after watching a clip about the jw suing kevin mcfree.

  they wanted to take away his freedom of speech.

  but in thinking about it, that is the way of the organization, save they want to control thought as well.

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  Fisherman

  That cuts both ways.

  It doesn’t. Conduct is or isn’t abuse of process not both. It is not up to each person where to draw the the line it is up to the courts to determine whether or not abuse of process is the case. When it isn’t the case feeling bad about it like in the cases I referenced doesn’t make it illegal.