there are i have learn't several cycles you go through on your way through any recovery program, including the often hellish experiences you've been through as jw's, especially so i think, for those that like me were brought up in the organisation, perhaps more so, than those who came in and left again in their adult years.
for some, hopefully you will one day come to a major realisation about it all and you will experience a major breakthrough.
you will feel vastly relieved when this happens.
Celtic,
Hear, hear!!
Good post. Folks who dwell on looking in the rear view mirror are destined to get in yet another accident. Learn from your mistakes, yet forge ahead with the curiousity and joy of life, love and everthing wonderful. Enjoy life to it's fullest, within the bounds of sanity and morality (or without, but face the consequences).
Cheers,
Love_Truth
exactly what does it mean to have "an elder mentality"?
i'm curious.
elders didn't exist when i left the jw's.
Answer:
2 Timothy 3:12-17: "In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
Acts 20:28-31: " 28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. [1] Be shepherds of the church of God, [2] which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears."
Love_Truth- 'Nuff said.
ok, i just got the latest wt that has big flaming numbers 666 on the front.
i skimmed through it but naturally it's pretty vague on who they think makes up this beast that has this number.
personally, i've always felt that there will be an individual antichrist (like hiter) who tries taking over the world.
Gumby,
Those who have faith in God, trust that he has good reasons for doing so. We don't need to know everything to be saved. We simply need to place faith in Him (YHWH), his Son, Jesus Christ, and the redeeming power of Christ's sacrifice.
I have faith that when the time is appropriate it will be clear what "666" refers to, as well as numerous other prophecies. But the key is this- spending time quiveling over the various and sundry interpretations of prophecies can divert our attention away from what is important: SALVATION.
Cheers,
Love_Truth
growing up one of my greatest embarrassments was that i was a jw.
i hated it when others found out or i had to do some kind of "jw" thing like not stand for the national anthem.
do you know any jws like this?
I got in a lot of fights with other kids for those reasons- not saluting the flag, not celebrating holidays, etc. It was always tough getting taunted, but felt better when I'd kick their ass. I don't know how I would have coped with it otherwise. So, ironically, JWs turned me into a very violence-prone young man. It took me decades of my life (until my thirties) before I finally got a grip, and stopped seeing red and fighting everytime I got angry over something. I got in my last fistfight at 32, alongside the road in the Baltimore area, when someone cut me off in their car. After I left the scene, I thought about the fact that I could be sent to prison for doing so, and I finally put an end to it. So much for being a pacifist JW- and I know a lot of guys still in the JWs (and out) who had the same problem as a result of their JW upbringing.
How great it is to be out of that mess!
or do you think they try to follow the rules?
My opinion is that roughly half believe the nonsense, and deprive themselves of God-given pleasures in the name of the WTC, and the other half remains quiet about what they do in their bedroom, and experience everything God meant a married man and woman to enjoy.
Love_Truth- Of the latter class (when I was a JW).
ok, i just got the latest wt that has big flaming numbers 666 on the front.
i skimmed through it but naturally it's pretty vague on who they think makes up this beast that has this number.
personally, i've always felt that there will be an individual antichrist (like hiter) who tries taking over the world.
Holey,
Interpretations belong to God, not men. I don't worry about interpretations, riddled with assumptions, such as those you alluded to. IMO, what is important is to focus on what is necessary for salvation, not getting bogged down with "interpreting" prophecies that have myriad interpretations.
i no longer consider myself a christian.. i feel that there may be a god, but if there is, he's not the god christians worship, for such a god makes no sense.. if as the bible says we need to have faith in jesus to get everlasting life,,, why would this god make it so misleading and leave so much room for ligitmate doubt,,, by having this information passed on to us by men and organizations that have not been totally honest????.
why would he use the bible to relate this information, when the bible is so full of errors????
the evidence is very clear that the bible has been tampered with over the centuries, so that a reasonable person can have legitimate doubts about the bible's origins.. also, why would god use men who are so prone to dishonesty, to convey this lifesaving information?.
It?s called free will, as taught in the Bible. You have the ability to choose to listen to other human?s interpretation of Scripture, or to do the work yourself (of studying the Bible) instead of being spoon fed. You may believe the Bible is ?full of errors? as you say, because you took someone?s word for it. You need to do the study yourself, and stop believing what others say. That is what is meant by making it your own. The Bible has been tampered with in what way? All the translations are in basic agreement. If you choose to have doubts, you will have to defend why, or why not, you had those doubts on judgment day. That God inspired imperfect men to write the Holy Scriptures in no way takes away from its message and truthfulness.
As I alluded to, the reason there are so many sects of ?Christianity?, is because most humans apparently are happy with being spoon fed other?s interpretations, and never doing the necessary research to establish their own faith in God and Scripture. There is no confusion about what it takes to gain salvation:
Start with the Law of Love, then add to that those other things (all summed up in that law, but fully expounded on elsewhere) as follows:
Put faith in God (YHWH), his Son, Jesus Christ, his Son's ransom sacrifice's power to redeem us, and his inspired word the Holy Bible - Hebrews 10:12, 26; 11:6; 11:1-40; John 3:16-21; Romans chapters 4, 5 & 6; Romans 10: 9-17; Acts 4:12; 10:43; Matthew 26:28; Mark 3:28-30; James 4:17; 5:15; 1 John 4:9-14;Luke 13:23,24; 1 Timothy 4:10.
Real faith, in turn, compels us to works, service to God and neighbor - James 2:26; Acts 26:20; Hebrews 10: 23-25.
Practice the fruitages of the Holy Spirit, doing our utmost to avoid sin -Galatians 5:19-25;1 Corinthians 6: 9,10; Matthew 12:31.
Prayer - Matthew 5:44, 6:9, 26:41; 1 Thessalonians 5:17; James 5:16; Romans 12:21; Phillipians 4:6; Colossians 4:2; 1 Peter 4:7.
If one starts out studying the NT with the express intent of examining each statement as to whether it is a Law/Rule that MUST be obeyed for salvation, versus a principle/suggestion, admonition, etc, versus chronology, prophesy, etc, one finds that the ?core beliefs? are those necessary for each individuals salvation, while most of Scripture is for other purposes, and should be treated accordingly.
The WTC, became Apostate when they began (as all man-made religions eventually do) on the path towards making their interpretations of principle, suggestion, admonition, chronology, prophesy, etc into LAW, and equating these man made laws and traditions with GOD?s laws. THIS is APOSTACY.
I personally hold that belief that the Bible is God?s word is central to our faith and understanding, because:
1)- If it is wholly not God?s word, why read it, for other than entertainment and curiousity? You surely won?t gain salvation by it, if you believe so. But what if it IS God?s word? You?ve ignored his guidebook, and have no one to blame but yourself.
2)- If it is not wholly God?s word, even if you believe parts of it are inspired, your choice of what is and is not inspired puts you, and everyone who believes such, in the unenviable position of having to uniquely discern what parts to believe. The logical conclusion of this path leads to infinite possible combinations, so what is the point of the Bible, then? To confuse us? That just doesn?t make sense.
3)- If it IS wholly God?s word, then we are blessed to have it, and believe it, and learn from it. This of course, takes faith.
While it is impossible to prove any of the above viewpoints, each of us must pick one as the foundation of our research, and hence, what we place our faith in. If Jesus? words were true, that we should build on Rock, rather than Sand, then my choice will always be the above number 3. Belief that the entire Bible is the inspired word of God is the Framework within which I do do my research, and always will be.
In the end, God will judge EACH of us as INDIVIDUALS, NOT as part of a ?religion?, ?group?, ?organization?, etc. Far too many hide behind the mask of their religion?s beliefs, letting THEM decide what is right and wrong, what is necessary for salvation, etc. It takes PERSONAL study, research, and the ensuing Love, Faith, and other Fruitages, along with the aforementioned Scriptural practices, to gain salvation.
That is why, IMO, Jesus spoke these words in Matthew 7:13,14: ?You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose the easy way. But the gateway to life is small, and the road is narrow, and only a few ever find it.
I hope this helps?..
Love_Truth
ok, i just got the latest wt that has big flaming numbers 666 on the front.
i skimmed through it but naturally it's pretty vague on who they think makes up this beast that has this number.
personally, i've always felt that there will be an individual antichrist (like hiter) who tries taking over the world.
That's easy (not the 666 part, but the definition of the antichrist). The antichrist is a group of people, those who deny that Jesus is the Christ, or Messiah, who deny that there is both a a Father(YHWH) and a Son(Jesus Christ), those who deny that Christ came in the flesh. There is no ambiguity as to that definition:
1 John 2:18
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
(Whole Chapter: 1 John 2 In context: 1 John 2:17-19)
1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist?he denies the Father and the Son.
(Whole Chapter: 1 John 2 In context: 1 John 2:21-23)
1 John 4:3
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
(Whole Chapter: 1 John 4 In context: 1 John 4:2-4)
2 John 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
(Whole Chapter: 2 John 1 In context: 2 John 1:6-8)
As for the ?number of the Beast?, 666, this remains a mystery in that no one can absolutely prove the meaning of the numbers to date.
well is it wrong to go out and plan on getting drunk,,,,,,tipsy,,,,,,,,,,,mellow,,,,,,,,,or "merry in heart" as the bible puts it??????
i know that some people have addiction problems with alcohol and i dont mean to offend anyone,,,,,but there are alot of folks who on a weekend here and there, drink and just let loose.
i , for one know that if you have a problem with alcohol this is a totally different subject .
The fact that Jesus made additional wine at the wedding feast at Cana, combined with such scriptures as Psalms 104:15 ("Wine, that makes the heart of mortal man rejoice") strongly suggests that "tying one on" on occasion would not be wrong in God's sight. A very good understanding of the Bible's views on alcohol can be found here: http://www.versebyverse.org/doctrine/wine.html
To drink with the express purpose of getting plastered, with the accompaniing next day vomiting, headache, etc, should never be the object of drinking. However, if one got in this state on occasion, there is, based upon the Bibilical evidence, no reason to condemn them. Now, if this becomes a habit, then this would be sinful, because it will damage our body, our relationships, employment, etc.
I have consumed alcohol to excess probably a dozen times or so in my life. The first few times (as a teen) that I did so, I wound up drunk bcause I was testing my limits; the other times it's happened because I forgot how much was too much. I usually drink in a social setting, especially if I'm having more than one or two drinks, rarely alone.
I find that a combination of a few puffs of ganja goes a long way towards preventing drinking too much inadvertantly. But when I'm not partaking of the weed, I limit myself to what I can handle without feeling crappy the next morning.
it's a beautiful sunday morning here and i'm looking forward to the first above-freezing ride of the year.
i'm joining a bike club and taking some group rides that invariably fall on saturday and/or sunday mornings.
it's so nice to have these time slots back.
I cycle outdoors on my KHS Flite 900:
when it's dry and the temperature is above 60F, otherwise, indoors on my LifeCycle when it's below 60F, 3 days per week (on the other 3 days I run).
