zack

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Posts by zack

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  31

  Question for Believers: How can God be PERFECT?

  by kid-A in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  several weeks ago the issue of god's 'perfect nature' came up on a thread.

  the concept of "perfection" is a persistent in vitually all faith traditions and theological constructs.. jws in particular, have an obsession with the concept of perfection and use it regularly in their propaganda: "live forever in a perfect paradise earth"; "live forever in perfect health"; "humans and animals will live together in perfect harmony", etc etc...... the point was raised about the possibility or impossibility of god being perfect.

  if we begin with the basic judaeo-christian tenet that god created the universe from nothingness, then he is the designer and creator of every single entity, sentient or non-sentient, and object within reality.

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  zack

  A word search for perfection in the WT's own CD library brings up only 10 occurences of the word in all the NWT Bible, none of them with reference to

  a freedom from flaw or defect. The context in which it occurs suggests "completeness" as in a flower's blooming in perfection, etc....

  The Bible never mentions "perfection" with reference to a state of freedom from sin, either. It is as you said when you started your thread---- a JW

  obsession.

  As far as God, the WTS seeks to explain Him in terms convenient to their theology, a neat little box where He is easily manipulated, a cage where the

  R&F can file past and marvel at the Being in the Box. "He's ours! ALL OUR'S!!!"
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  31

  My Bethel Experience Part 18

  by new boy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is the fun one......... health, dismemberment, death (natural and unnatural) murder and suicide.. well its sunday afternoon, portland oregon, february 18, 2007.........its been 34 years,.......i 'm just drunk enough, excuse me,.....i mean "self medicated"enough (p.s.

  juni sweet heart.... i love you), to start writing this chapter.........the people at bethel were killing us spiritually!.......and sometimes they killed us physically too.....i'm not letting myself of the hook...i was there and i was as bad them..............no, i'm sorry i was worst then them......and why?.....because i knew better....those bastards didn't know any better .......we need to send them some love........the thing they can't give us ................we need to give them......... love............. "thats all you need" .

  first off....... when you go to bethel, you sign a document stating that if you die while you are at bethel, the society has "the right" to keep your body.........most people, just sign it and forget about it, but don't you think that is just a little strange?..........i did.

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  zack

  Thanks for the stories......I never went permanent, only temped the last few years. It seemed sad to me, the people there. Like Stepford people.

  I never went to Jonestown, either, but maybe that's how it was there.

  Many of my friends are Bethelites (or were). They fall into two camps (the ones that tell it like it ws---like you 90%---- and the ones who tell it like THEY want

  you to tell it. I'm soooooooooooo glad I never wasted my time on that place. What terrible treatment.
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  28

  Resurrection vs. Re-Creation...

  by Tuesday in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  um, what's the deal with this?

  i'm speaking with a witness and he keeps talking about the resurrection and the way it's explained sounds like it's really a re-creation of all of our memories in god's mind then put back on earth in a re-created body.

  so in essence a clone of me with my memories and personality will live forever in paradise, how exactly is that a resurrection.

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  zack

  The hope, IMHO, is biblical. The JW hope is not.
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  28

  Resurrection vs. Re-Creation...

  by Tuesday in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  um, what's the deal with this?

  i'm speaking with a witness and he keeps talking about the resurrection and the way it's explained sounds like it's really a re-creation of all of our memories in god's mind then put back on earth in a re-created body.

  so in essence a clone of me with my memories and personality will live forever in paradise, how exactly is that a resurrection.

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  zack

  Thanks for the thread. It is a topic I find fascinating, especially in view of the fact that JW's have only that hope, such as it is. I think that

  to understand the resurrection or recreation one needs to understand death. And how does one do that? The scriptures say the dead are concious of nothing at

  all, NOT that they ceased to exist on every level. Does that mean that there is some part of them that IS ALIVE?

  Well, didn't Christ say of God that He was a God of the LIVING and not of the

  dead? And the very same scriptures say that at death the BODY returns to the ground (dust), but the SPIRIT returns to God. So as long as God has possession

  of your SPIRIT--- your life, your essence, the thing that makes you YOU (and the thing that makes you LIKE HIM) regardless of the collection of cells we call our bodies---- you are in fact,

  alive. JW's use the scripture at Ezequiel where it says that the soul that is sinning "it itself will die" to justify their beleif in the total non-existence of the dead. But I believe this to be the

  spiritual death, the total extinguishing of life(the spirit) by a deliberate act of God based upon His determination that a person is unredeemable, and not the common grave of mankind or

  Hades or Sheol, etc....

  I do not think the resurrection is as JW's believe in, but that's because I don't believe in death as the JW's do. I agree that the JW resurrection is a cloning program. It is as far removed

  from God as one can get.
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  20

  My wife says she's never read where JW's are to submit to FDS and GB

  by zack in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have to give her credit that at least she is willing to discuss the misgivings i have with the wts.

  up to this point i have not.

  openly stated my disbelief in the jw theology and thinks some of my attitude is just the libertarian streak in me.

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  zack

  Thanks all..... I knew I could count on you!
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  17

  "It was Jehovah leading me..."

  by Fleshybirdfodder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my best friend and his wife had hired an elder to do some refinishing work in their basement.

  they kept their tv and vhs tapes (pre dvd era) down there.

  it seems dear brother was a bit of a nosy fella, so he just happened to pop in one of their home movies of a trip they had taken to cuba and found some footage of my friend smoking a cigar.

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  zack

  What else is there to say about an organization where ratting out your friends is not only encouraged but rewarded?
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  20

  My wife says she's never read where JW's are to submit to FDS and GB

  by zack in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have to give her credit that at least she is willing to discuss the misgivings i have with the wts.

  up to this point i have not.

  openly stated my disbelief in the jw theology and thinks some of my attitude is just the libertarian streak in me.

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  zack

  I have to give her credit that at least she is willing to discuss the misgivings I have with the WTS. Up to this point I have not

  openly stated my disbelief in the JW theology and thinks some of my attitude is just the libertarian streak in me. She said to me that my misgivings were perhaps a "lack of humility" and

  that I was "too smart for my own good". She is a great girl, my wife, and I love her dearly, but I can clearly see the indoctrination and

  witness-speak in her arguments. She said all this to me after discussing the new WT "arrangement.." I simply mentioned that I

  thought that having two sets of scales was not only a little disingenous, but also dangerous. (Yes, I likened the 2 different WT's to

  the scriptural prohibition of using 2 sets of scales--- one for the chumps and one for the leary). She accused me of being cynical and

  seeing some type of malicious conspiracy in what the WTS did. This is when I asked her who her "mediator'' was. Naturally, she

  said "Jesus" to which I said that according to the WTS she did not have a mediator but could only benefit from the ransom by associating with

  the "remnant". She never read that anywhere, she says.

  "Honey," I said, "only by associating with and submitting to the FDS and it's GB can anyone of us even HOPE to saved." (Thus saith the WTS)

  She says she never read that. This from a girl raised in the truth, elder Dad, etc...... So, who can help her refresh her memory?
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  21

  The next big change... my prediction

  by No Apologies in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  with all the talk about the new watchtower format, i thought i would throw out an idea i had recently, on how the tower could solve its current cash flow problem.. .

  its very evident that they do have a serious problem with declining income, and that the real cause of this was the switch to the donation arrangement.

  although at the time, it seemed like a smart move that would avoid the nightmare and expense of paying taxes, its clear to see that it has had an impact on the bottom line.

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  zack

  They weres cared of, imo, of what sales taxes would lead to: financial audits. They DO NOT WANT to open their books to anyone. They are the

  antithesis of transparency.
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  40

  What Have YOU Learned Since Leaving???

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  anything you'd like to share with us??

  i learned that i truly was in a cult.

  i originally hated that thought.

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  zack

  Great answer to your own question! I too hated the thought that I had been in a CULT! What me? Yes, me!

  So, I learned that NO ONE knows everything.

  That all people are entitled to be heard--- maybe THEY are right.

  I learned to live as Jesus said: Love others, enjoy today(no anxieties)------ leave tomorrow to US.

  I learned NOT to have JW guilt.

  Thanks, JWD and all like you who had the courage to THINK and to ACT. I'll tell you, I prayed fervently for God to give me the TRUTH. I know now He did, he

  let me escape. The rest is up to me.
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  56

  CONFIRMATION new watchtower mag arrangement

  by yesidid in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was announced at the service meeting.

  so it's definately a goer.

  starting jan 2008. .

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  zack

  I just love this board! The people on here ANTICIPATE the moves of Bethel in a way that would make the average JW cringe. They still believe in the Wizard. If they

  saw the whole thing as a business, they could anticipate the moves as well. I feel sorry for so many, who like me for so long, actually beleived it was the troof.

  This change is going to be just one more nail in the coffin of one more false religion, just as it should be. Judge Rutherford was right:

  RELIGION IS A SNARE AND A RACKET! The WTS has the racket part down to a science.

  Zack--------------------------