Athanasius

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Posts by Athanasius

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  38

  Did You Hate Going In Service???

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i really thought it was a stupid waste of time!

  especially weekend mornings and holidays..

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  Athanasius

  I hated Field Service and as a kid tried all sorts of illnesses to get out of it.
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  6

  Friday the 13th,

  by John Doe in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  and the board is dead.

  interestingly, there will be 3 friday the 13th's this year..

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  Athanasius

  I saw the orignial "Friday the 13th" film back in the 1980s. Betsy Blair was great as the avenging mom, especially when she did Jason's voice. It was kind of a satire of Psycho with the son dead and the mother doing the murders.
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  15

  An Essay on Blood

  by IWillBeDubbedNoMore in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this can be found at genesis 9:3,4. the society then states above " they were not to consume blood".

  noah was required to bleed any animal that he killed.

  he wasnt forbidden from eating the flesh of an animal that had died of natural causes.

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  Athanasius

  Excellent post Marvin. Last April Genesis 9 was discussed in our Bible class at church and there was some discussion of verse 4 so I did some research into several Torah commentaries. It is interesting what the ArtScroll Tanach says about Genesis 9:4. Using commentary from great Torah scholars like Rashi, Radak, Abarbanel, and Rambam, Bereishis (Genesis) Volume 1(a), page 286-287 says:

  "Rashi explains that this verse prohibits a limb cut from a living animal--i.e, while its soul is still in it, you may not eat its flesh...He accordingly interprets that there are two prohibitions implicit in the verse: both the flesh and the blood taken from a living animal are forbidden. Rashi's interpretation follows the view of Rav Chaninah ben Gamliel in Sanhedrin 59, who holds that the verse prohibits both flesh cut from a living animal and blood drawn from a living animal.

  "Targum Yonasn renders: But flesh which is torn from a living beast, while the life is in it, or that is torn from a slaughtered animal before all the breath has gone forth, you shall not eat."

  On page 288 of the same publication, it mentioned Hirsch, another Torah scholar, commenting on Genesis 9:4: "Hirsch, rendering the verse in consonance with the Sages in Sanhedrin 59, stresses that blood from a living animal is not forbidden a Noachide." Hirsch concludes that Genesis 9:4 "cannot be rendered other than nevertheless, flesh, while its blood is in its soul, you shall not eat -- clearly referring to the living state of the animal and prohibiting flesh from a living animal."

  Instead of being a prohibition of blood transfusions, Genesis 9:4 is humane law against cruelty to animals by prohibiting the tearing and eating of flesh from a living creature. Not surprisingly the Watchtower GB refuses to take the word of the great Jewish Torah scholars who were fluent in Hebrew and spent their whole life studying the Torah; instead they accept the speculations of Freddy Franz who supposedly taught himself Hebrew and then attempted to translate the Hebrew Bible into English.
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  16

  Know any cases from platform or audience of "apostate" remarks?

  by Gregor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  since leaving, one of my fantasies (after hours on the platform in the old days) is making a well planned statement, starting out subtle and building it into an outright expose of wt doctrine.

  it would have to be a specific subject, (1914 generation would be good) to keep it consise and simple.

  i have seen a couple of "crackpot" situations where somebody yelled from the audience, but nothing very effective.

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  Athanasius

  When I was the TM School overseer I once voiced guarded criticism of the NWT from the platform. We were discussing public reading, so I told the students to look up Esther 6:6, as this was part of the week's Bible reading. Then we read the verse in the NWT which says: "When Haman came in, the king proceeded to say to him: 'What is to be done to the man in whose honor the king himself has taken delight?'" I then asked the audience if that is the way they would normally express themselves. Not really, I said. Then I said that we would probably use expressions similar to those found in the Today's English Version Bible which translates the same verse this way: "So Haman came in, and the king said to him, 'There is someone I wish very much to honour. What should I do for this man?'" Next I mentioned that since the NWT isn't written the way we generally speak, that it is important that we really practice reading out loud before we give talk number 2, which at the time was the Bible reading.

  So I was able to expose the woodeness of the NWT and the superiority of another Bible translation at the same time. But to protect my rear, make it appear as counsel on public reading.
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  7

  A Question About The Kingdom Interlinear Translation

  by FireNBandits in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i no longer have my 1969 edition kit (or 1985 for that matter), but i'm very curious as to how the literal english sublinear beneath the westcott and hort greek text translates the words "aion" and "aionios.

  " the nwt usually idiotically translates as "system of things" when in actuality "aion" means "eon" or "age" and "aionios" means everlasting, eternal, and according to some translations such as young's literal and the concordant version "age lasting" and "eonian.

  here are some verses to look up to let me know how the kit translates the above koine greek terms: matthew 13:39,40,49,28:20 .

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  Athanasius

  It always felt awkward using the NWT when out in field service because of the peculiar expressions that it used. "System of things" being one of the NWT's strange phrases. Hebrews 1:2 is especially awkward as the NWT renders it: "has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things."

  The New Jerusalem Bible translates the same verse using wording that easier understand: "in our time, the final days, he has spoken to us in the person of his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things and through whom he made the ages."

  I never could understand why Freddy Franz used "system of things" in place of "age" or "era." I guess because its a phrase unique to the JWs.
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  18

  Peculiar NWT rendering: System of Things

  by Athanasius in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this morning at church i read the new testament lesson, which was ephesians 1:15-23, from the new revised standard version bible.

  verse 20-21 says:.

  "god put this power to work in christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, (21) far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come.".

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  Athanasius

  Hi Dinah. I agree with you. My mom is a JW and everytime she mentions "this old system of things," I also want to barf.

  And, Dan the Man, you are so right. The NWT is a one man translation and thus reflects Freddy Franz's idiosyncrasies. Since Freddy ended his secular education in 1913 and thereafter led a cloistered life, his Bible version contains phrases and terminology that were common in the 1890s and early 1900s. For example 1 Timothy 6:18 NWT says: "To work at good, to be rich in fine works, to be liberal, ready to share." J. N. Darby, who completed his translation of the Bible in 1890 also uses the term "liberal" in verse 18. However, the New Revised Standard Version translates 1 Timothy 6:18: " They are to do good, to be rich in good works, generous, and ready to share." I don't know of a single modern English Bible version that uses "liberal" in place of "generous" in this verse. Another example is Daniel 4:14 where Freddy uses the word "boughs" where the NRSV and other modern language Bibles use "branches." The English language has changed a lot since 1890, but the problem with the NWT is that Freddy didn't adapt to the changing times.

  Because of the awkwardness of the translation, I was embarrassed to use the NWT in the field service, prefering the New International Version and using the excuse that by using the NIV at the door the householder couldn't say we only use our own Bible.
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  18

  Peculiar NWT rendering: System of Things

  by Athanasius in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this morning at church i read the new testament lesson, which was ephesians 1:15-23, from the new revised standard version bible.

  verse 20-21 says:.

  "god put this power to work in christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, (21) far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come.".

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  Athanasius

  This morning at church I read the New Testament lesson, which was Ephesians 1:15-23, from the New Revised Standard Version Bible. Verse 20-21 says:

  "God put this power to work in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, (21) far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come."

  Thirty years ago when giving public talks as a JW elder I read the same Scripture using the NWT, which renders verse 21 as: "far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name named not only in this system of things, but also in that to come."

  The Watchtower's peculiar rendering of the Greek word aion as "system of things," was always an embarrassment when I had to use the NWT when talking with non-JWs. Did "system of things" and other peculiar translations in the NWT irritate you too?
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  75

  Your Opinion: Why Do Some JWs Come Here & Defend The Witnesses?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is it that they are masochists?.

  they are already being disobedient to the "slave" by coming to these internet sites.. so, why do they do it??

  ?.

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  Athanasius

  I get the impression from the hostile comments here that the Watchtower ripped some of you off big time. But thats not an excuse to turn your hostility toward individual JWs like Reniaa. During my 30 plus years in the JW religion the people who showed hostility just made me want to stay in the Watchtower because we were warned about persecution. However, it was the people who tried to kindly reason with me that made the best impression. I fondly remember an elderly Church of Christ elder who was a return visit of mine. I spent many hours trying to convince him to become a JW because I thought we had the "truth." Nevertheless, it was the objections that he raised, in a kindly manner, that got me to do research into the JW theology, research that led to my first doubts about the Watchtower being God's Channel. Though it took another 15 years before my final exit from the JWs, still it was the kind reasoning manner of this old gentleman that started me on the path to freedom.

  The JWs who come here to witness, if treated kindly, may start doing some objective research into their own religion. Hopefully such research will make them more enlightened about God and the Watchtower.
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  47

  Ran into the JW table at San Diego airport...

  by Confession in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yes, my ladyfriend and i were entering the san diego airport for our flight home to phoenix late yesterday afternoon, when i noticed a forty-ish man and woman sitting down behind a table loaded with wts publications.

  i stopped to glance over them with joy.

  i made familiar comments about some of the publications, noting the newer soft covers and trying to casually engage the pair in conversation.

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  Athanasius

  It seems to me that "witnessing" has become an empty ritual for most JWs. It is all about marking up time sheets with lots of hours spent doing nothing. In some religions they have rituals where one burns candles and incense. The JW ritual is to stand on a street corner holding the Watchtower magazine or knock on doors where nobody is home.
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  46

  Have you met Governing Body members?

  by BonaFide in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  brother jaracz taught one day of my mts class, the very last day.

  when i was in bethel i met brother schroeder, brother sydlik, barr, barry.

  i said hi to brother franz once as a kid.. the new ones?

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  Athanasius

  At a District Convention back in 1959 I met the Watchtower Oracle himself, Freddy Franz. From the platform he sounded like a real big man, but when I met him I was actually taller than he was and I was only 12 years old at the time.

  In 1975, the year Armageddon happened, I met his eminence, Ted Jaracz. He had been invited by our Circuit to give a special talk. Our PO knew Jaracz and he asked me if I would like to meet "his eminence," so I said sure why not. Jaracz's talk was bland and uninspiring, nothing like Freddy Franz who could spin a good yarn. In person Jaracz was just as bland and uninspiring.

  Years later in talking with Maximus I learned what a SOB Jaracz was and how he manipulated his way to the top of the Watchtower dictatorship.