googlemagoogle

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Posts by googlemagoogle

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  59

  Is the 144,000 persons mentioned in Rev 7:4-8 literal or symbolic

  by trem in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i know that this may have been treated before but i still need your valuable suggestions.. rev 7:4 says "and i heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of israel", veses 5 to 8 provides additional details that 12,000 were selected from the 12 tribes of israel.

  the book of numbers 1: 20-42 lists the following as the 12 tribes of natural israel: reu ben, sim eon, gad, judah, is sachar, zeb ulun, e phraim, manas seh, benjamin, dan, ash er and naph tali.

  however, rev 7:5-8 did not list the tribes of ephraim and dan but instead listed 10 approved tribes with 2 non approved tribes of levi and joseph.

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  googlemagoogle

  everything in revelation is literal. especially the scorpid tail horses with human heads.
  
  if 144.000 is literal, 666 is literal too... wtf?
• 
  33

  making 1914 crumble

  by googlemagoogle in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  yet another 1914 thread?

  there are plenty of threads already about chronology, babylonian kings, egyptian kings, median and persian kings, there is also lots of information available about old bible-students and jw literature.

  even a simplified chronology including "fallen baby" and "evil duck" is available somewhere on this site.

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  googlemagoogle

  yet another 1914 thread?
  
  there are plenty of threads already about chronology, babylonian kings, egyptian kings, median and persian kings, there is also lots of information available about old bible-students and JW literature. even a simplified chronology including "fallen baby" and "evil duck" is available somewhere on this site.
  
  but they all got one string attached: there's just NO JW who would sit through your talk about nabonid and nebuchadnezar and 20 missing years. and there are even less JWs who would understand it, if they haven't already researched it on their own. and even if so, you are quoting secular (bad bad bad!) history and old (bad bad bad!) light!
  
  i've come up with an approach that's more successful and i already shared it a while ago, but it got lost in a huge thread. it's the climax-approach. you don't need anything but their own more or less recent book "revelation, it's great climax is at hand".
  
  The Watchtower book Revelation - Its Great Climax is at Hand! (1988) quotes the old Barbour booklet on page 105:
  
  "'It was in B.C. 606, that God's kingdom ended, the diadem was removed, and all the earth given up to the Gentiles. 2520 years from B.C. 606, will end in A.D. 1914.' - The Three Worlds, published in 1877, page 83."
  
  A footnote informs us:
  
  "Providentially, those Bible Students had not realized that there is no zero year between "B.C." and "A.D." Later, when research made it necessary to adjust B.C. 606 to 607 BC, the zero year was also eliminated, so that the prediction held good at "A.D. 1914." - See "The Truth Shall Make You Free," published by the Watch Tower Society in 1943, page 239."
  
  bummer! the bible students thought jerusalem fell in 606 and still came up with the 1914 date. and you don't need to buy old books on ebay to show it, it's all in the climax-book!
  
  now let's think that over for a bit: no JW would deny that the bible students expected the end of the world in 1914, nothing less. and here in the revelation-book it sais that 1914 was calculated using the false assumption that there was a year 0. and as the destruction date is 607 now, we know it was simply moved back for a year. which implies that 1914 is NOT calculated by starting at 607, but 607 is calculated by starting at 1914!
  
  this is something every JW can understand and will be disturbed about. and NOW you can move in with heavy artillery and show em old publications (606 was supported until the 1930s) and "evil duck" history.
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  16

  Anonymous online payment

  by IT Support in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  further to my thread on anonymous domain name registration, does anyone have any experience of using anonymous online payment systems?

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  googlemagoogle

  how anonymous? i'm pretty happy with paypal...
• 
  49

  586 607 Jerusalem destroyed.

  by PoppyR in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi guys, new!

  and i'm sure this has been covered, but i find the site has no search for me to look, so sorry if you've discussed it to death.

  for the first time last night i came across information about 586 being the actual year jerusalem was destroyed.

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  googlemagoogle

  www.607v587.com
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  51

  Do Any Atheists Feel This Way?

  by Big Dog in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the atheists have done a pretty good job on me, i am just about to cast my lot in with them after all the reading and debating on the issue.

  they just seem to have all the answers and appear to hold the intellectual high ground, they do a good job of making one feel like a complete idiot for believing in a god, much less the christian version.

  so now that i am almost free of this delusional, magical thinking, religious burden of foolishly believing in a god and that there is anymore to life than what is right here how do i feel?

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  googlemagoogle

  I am not an atheist, but i don't believe in a higher power.
  
  erm.. that's what an atheist is, by definition, isn't it?
• 
  12

  What social classes were in your KH?

  by badboy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  any takers?

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  googlemagoogle

  the needy
  usually old folks who didn't actually care about the religion but needed someone to talk to, someone to move their furniture or to iron their clothes.
  
  the greedy
  those who owned a small unsuccessful business and take the opportunity to sell their stuff to their fellow brothers.
  
  the patriarchs
  those who had most or all of their (big) families in the congregation. usually elders. they make the rules for the rest.
  
  the wannabe-normal youth
  party folk. secret smokers who wouldn't reject a little weed or a quick affair. you wouldN't recognize them in the meeting though.
  
  the morningdew youth
  the pride of the patriarchs. baptized at the age of maybe 10-14, pioneering and soon to be MS. usually shunned by the wannabe-normals due to bad experiences.
  
  the fanatics
  mostly women, the true believers. giving their last minute and penny to the "kingdom work".
  
  the streetworkers
  elders and ms who think they can motivate the wannabe-normal youths to do more by being more liberal than the other elders.
  
  the invisible
  some who came into the congregation but never were accepted. noone notices if they are here or not. if they don't come noone will miss them. if they don't come in a while, noone would remember them in case they'd come again.
  
  the PO's wife
  that's where the whole control is.
  
  there are definately lots of other classes
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  39

  Is disfellowshipping bad?

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it seems that some people are keen to use disfellowshipping as the measure of anything bad.

  if someone is deleted from a forum for being obnoxious then that is akin to being disfellowshipped and is b-a-d. yada yada yada.. is it?.

  is every disfellowshipping "bad" simply by virtue of being a disfellowshipping?.

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  googlemagoogle

  doesn't excommunication actually only apply to not being allowed to parttake at the communion? ie... not being able to take from the "symbols"?
  
  all but a few JWs are excommunicated and don't know about it.
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  68

  What one sentence could you say to a JW that would stick with them?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  you've probably heard sentences that stuck with you.

  quotes, one-liners.

  you hear them and they make so much sense or touch you so personally at the time that they become part of you.

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  googlemagoogle

  "if it's the truth, it can address all criticism. why are you so afraid of apostates?"
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  14

  Is the Bible False?

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  is the bible false?

  i encourage everyone to post on this thread the main reasons why you do not believe that the bible is the true inspired word of god.. i want to examine both sides of this subject, so i am also posting another thread entitled "is the bible true?

  " at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/100531/1.ashx.

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  googlemagoogle

  i also can recommend the "skeptic's annotated bible". i'd love to have a hardcopy of it, hopefully it'll be available in printed form someday. it's got comments for all the texts you never read when still believing.
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  26

  I have *found Jehovah*!!!

  by tetrapod.sapien in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after much searching high and low, i have finally found jehovah.

  he was there all along, but i was too arrogant to see him, and his greatness.. i am so sorry to the people with whom i debated his obvious and holy existence.. he has been on wikipedia all this time.. please see, and witness this.

  praise jah you peoples!.

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  googlemagoogle

  now i know why they call him "creator". if not of all things, at least of a lot of things...
  
  i believe!