Good words Adelmaal except you are a bit in err when you say " We have the Bible just as Jesus and his disciples did." Jesus and his disciples did not have a bible. Very few of the good words back in the time of Jesus were in writing, most were word of mouth only. As you know, nothing was actually written about Jesus' time on earth until the end of the 1st century. The first bible, called the vulgate, written in latin, did not come out until late 300, early 400AD.
Posts by Hondo
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97In the last days there will be a witness to all the inhabited earth........
by holly inand then the end will come.. something like that!!.
so, for those who believe the bible, who are these people and what scripture would back that?.
holly
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111
My wife is getting baptized on the 19th!
by Check_Your_Premises inmy wife is getting baptized on the 19th.. i wrote her a letter today.
basically i asked her why she isn't coming to me to find out my concerns.
i am the person who has the most invested in her.
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Hondo
I emphathise with you Check_Your_Premises, the exact same thing happened to me. In my situation (I was in Navy at the time, stationed overseas in Japan (my ex-wife is a Japanese National). Ship I was on was deployed, and kids in school) it was all a matter of timing. They (JW's) came, took her over, and destroyed my marriage, my family, and my life. She kept her entire involvement from me (I suspect she was advise by her bible teacher not to tell me of her JW involvement, or to tell her mother, father or sisters) until I confronted her after I found a couple of her Watchtower and awake magazines she had squirled away. This initial confrontation year was circa 1994 and everything went downhill from there. Although we were legally married, I felt as soon a she came under their control she divorced me. I was not the part of her life I had been; I simply became an object in her life. Me, our children, and our family became 8, 9, and 10 on her priority list of 10 most important things in her life. Meetings, bible study and selling magazines took the place of us going out to dinner, or attending some other function. It was dismal, from my perspective. Nothing I said could convince her that she was headed down the wrong path. I, unfortunately, became very angry with her, which just reenforced her intensity within the JW's. She was baptized in 98 or 99, not sure, again she did not tell me, nor would I have been able to do anything anyway. Divorce was eventually granted in 2003, and although it was something she, as a JW, was not permitted to request, was elated when it was granted. I did all the paperwork, but only did it because she wanted it. I'm not sure I could have gone through the rest of me life (we were married for 20 years) dividing my time, and life, between a cult and my life in the normal, sane, world. I sometime look back a few years and think that I should hung in there and tried to get help for her.
Story of my life. Hope everything works out ok for you.
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JW Underground
by Hondo ini recently read an article about jw's that, if had the choice, would probably leave because of the deceptions, lies, etc., but don't because of family, friends, prestige, whatever, and instead lead a make-believe life going through the motions of being a loyal and believing follower of the watchtower organization.
most of those purported to be part of this non-believing/participating, but attending, jw population, are folks that have been associated with the jw's for a number of years, but, as many have, decided that the lies and constant changes (new light) just don't make sense anymore.
i would suspect that identifying those who just "go through the motions" of being a good jw would be difficult.
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Hondo
I recently read an article about JW's that, if had the choice, would probably leave because of the deceptions, lies, etc., but don't because of family, friends, prestige, whatever, and instead lead a make-believe life going through the motions of being a loyal and believing follower of the Watchtower organization. Most of those purported to be part of this non-believing/participating, but attending, JW population, are folks that have been associated with the JW's for a number of years, but, as many have, decided that the lies and constant changes (new light) just don't make sense anymore.
I would suspect that identifying those who just "go through the motions" of being a good JW would be difficult. But then again, maybe not, I don't know. Has anyone else heard of this? Is this "underground" (if there is one) prevelant? The Christians of old use to meet in secret places and even had a specialized coded language they used when they conversed with each other. Could this also be happening as well with the "closet JW's", if there are any?
Just curious. Thoughts/comments welcomed. Thanks
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69
watchtower red flags
by Ticker inwhen i was studying and in the org i never did put two and two together becuase first off it was peer pressure and a young baptism age.
i was indoctrinated as a child so i never got a chance to ever use sound reason and judgement toword the validity of the society's claims.
but anywho i was thinking the other day about certain things that are obvious red flags and far fetched claims that the org makes.
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Hondo
"The beliefes are to do with the main teachings of the Bible.. eg no trinity etc. all the core things...Agin the Bible has to be the meassuring stick if we belive it."
JW Ben, you appear to be a very intelligent person, at least you write as you may be. I don't quite understand you statement above, "the main teachings of the Bible.. eg no trinity etc." I know this is what the JW's teach, as well as other non-christian sect/cults, and is what the Watchtower Society has proclaimed that all of its followers must believe. But, if you sit down and just "read" the Bible, which I supect you have, without any outside interference, such as the bizzare interpretations of the society, you can only come to the conclusion of the concept of a triune God, a Trinity. This idea starts in the book of Genisis, is and is continued into the New Testament. The word Trinity is not mentioned, which is ok, there are a lot of concepts and ideas that are practiced today not mentioned in the Bible.
The Bible is not the "rulebook" of life, but rather the "Guide". If was not even written for us! It was written for the people of 2000-3000 years ago. For goodness sake, if if wasn't for the Catholics, we would not even have a bible today. If someone is going to base his or her entire life solely on the Bible, the inspired, infallible, word of God, then that person had better know that the organization he or she belongs to is inspired and infallible and interprets the Bible correctly. The JW's do a pretty poor job at this, to say the least. To claim to be God earthly "chosen" organization, a Prophet, yet not be able to get predictions correct over the past 130 years, does not quite cut it.
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69
watchtower red flags
by Ticker inwhen i was studying and in the org i never did put two and two together becuase first off it was peer pressure and a young baptism age.
i was indoctrinated as a child so i never got a chance to ever use sound reason and judgement toword the validity of the society's claims.
but anywho i was thinking the other day about certain things that are obvious red flags and far fetched claims that the org makes.
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Hondo
I had a visit by a couple very nice JW's doing their Door-to-door. I listened to the salesman pitch, which was the one about "being in the neighborhood, etc., etc... When they were done I asked them two questions; 1) what do the JW's have to offer that other similar groups don't, and 2) there are probably 10-15 other groups that offer similar plans for salvation; why yours. Again, why should should I listen to their thoughts and ideas and not the 7th Day Aventist, or the Catholics with their 2000 + or - years of history.
They were somewhat baffled to say the least, but went into their best effort to show me bible quotes justifying JW's as the best (I was not convinced). We talked about past "mistakes" and "predictions" associated with either the society as a whole, or people in the society. The explained that people makes mistakes, then went on and talked about the "new light" theory and how the light gets brighter as time goes. I then told then that if I were to join any organization I would want it to be the purest as possible. I mentioned to them the past failed predictions, the apparent epidemic of child abuse in the JW's, blood policy (suicidal), and flip-flops and doctrinal mistakes, such as organ transplants and immunizations, that probably caused thousands of death between the time they were banned by the society and the time they were allowed. I asked about the "annointed ones", specifically, how many there were now, and how someone knew he or she (are there female annointed ones?) was annointed? Did someone "just know", or did they get a visit from an angel? The could not answer. They knew they were not annointed though.
All-in-all I enjoyed my time with them. I ended the visit by telling them that I would love to chat with them again sometime, but would probably want to read and study more about society (other than just JW's publications). I told them that it seemed to me that If I someone were thinking about signing up with the JW's, and wanted to feel confident that what was learned in a particular month or year would not change during the next, it would be worth waiting until all the "new light(s)" had reach a point were there were no more "new light(s)", in otherwords, the society and the JW's would be at their purest point. They weren't sure how long the new light concept would be going on. The left with a semi-promise to come back, and, in my opinion, somewhat confused.
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4
Another Death due to blood refusal
by Hondo indid anyone watch the medical reality show, "critical hour", about a week ago?
for those that have never watched it before it follows the first few hours of emergency treatment of actual victims of car accidents, gun shot wounds, normal accidents, etc.
one of the victims of the show of a week or so ago was a elderly woman (70+), and a jehovah witenss.
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Hondo
Did anyone watch the medical reality show, "Critical Hour", about a week ago? For those that have never watched it before it follows the first few hours of emergency treatment of actual victims of car accidents, gun shot wounds, normal accidents, etc. One of the victims of the show of a week or so ago was a elderly woman (70+), and a Jehovah Witenss. She apparently had a serious fall and was bleeding pretty severely in and around the brain. To survive, she required immediate surgery to relieve the pressure within the head, which would have meant a necessary blood transfusion. Her husband, and another accompanying JW, was told that she would more than likely die without the surgery. To make a long story short the husband quoted JW beliefs, during a conversation with the doctor, stating that they were strong in their belief and that was that...The show ended with a report from the doctor that the wife had in fact died as a result of her injuries.
I'm not a JW and have a very hard time unerstanding how a husband, as in this case, can just sit back and watch his wife die...Why??? It seems suicidal and murderous all at the same time. Suicidal in that if she were conscious she may or may not have refused a transfusion and let herself die. Murderous in that her husband could have saved here life by simply saying yes, save my wifes life, to the doctors. I've read the various scripture passages the JW's quote justifying their refusal to transfuse blood and do not see how anyone, or organization, can interpret the quotes the way they do. It is obvious they are talking about animal blood, and, at least the way I read it, applicable to Jewish people only. How many JW's have died because of this insane belief? How many children?
Life is so precious. To let it simply pass away because of a rediculous belief is sad.
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26
Brought up as a Witness
by newbie-australia ini'm a newbie to anything like this.
are most people here ex-jws?.
anyone brought up as witnesses from birth?.
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Hondo
Was anyone ever reversed shunned? In other words, because you joined the JW's did your non-JW friends or non-JW family members refuse to have anything to to do with you because they felt you joined a cult, or for some other reason? My ex-wife joined at the age of 55 years (two years ago). Although I did not shun her I had great difficulty dealing with her attending numerous meetings and spending many hours away from home (this eventually led to our divorce). Her two sisters and mother essentially do not want anything to do with her anymore because they feel she destroyed my family and marriage, and because they more or less equate the JW's with the Aum Shin Riku cult in Japan (sisters and mother are all Japanese Nationals). It is not a hateful type shunning, but more one of fear; fear my ex will spend her time trying to convert them, which is not the way they want to remember her, and as a result do not desire her to visit or spend time with them. It's a sad situation all-a-round.
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18
What the hell are DUP
by BigG in.
im new to this site so please dont laugh when i ask this...but i am having difficulties with the terminologies.. what are they?.
g
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Hondo
I say that entry Valis. Did I miss something? Other that DUB being slang for a witness, what are it origins? Is it an acronym? thanks.
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What the hell are DUP
by BigG in.
im new to this site so please dont laugh when i ask this...but i am having difficulties with the terminologies.. what are they?.
g
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Hondo
Is DUB an acronym for something? Where did it come from?
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Some people followed Jehovah's Organization, and God killed 'em
by AlmostAtheist ingina and i were batting around how the organization calls itself "god's channel" out of one side of their mouth and then reminds everyone that they are "imperfect men" out of the other.
this allows them to claim a position of authority as "god's organization" while at the same time allowing them to make mistakes and get away with it.
(1975, "generation", all the flavors of blood, etc).
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Hondo
Leolaia
Jerusalem was destroyed in 586BCE not 607BCE. History, in any book that I have read, is very clear on this. Mayby I'm wrong on this, but I've yet to find, or let alone, read a clear and concise justification as to why JW's use 607. As a result, it appears their current, and in apparent total error, doctrinal/belief timeline is way off center, and as a result, their 1914 date is suspect, or in my view totally wrong, along with many of their other contempory teachings (lies?) that are based on the year 607 as the year Jerusalem was destroyed.