i always wondered why we were not spending the money to build halls in remote and poor areas that needed them - but instead we would build new halls and sell old ones in places where we were seeing little growth.. every congregation in this area has built a new hall in the past 20 or so years.
yet the congs are the same basic size they were before.
most have had a least one major remodel since building new.
Good point on the emergency supplies, survival equipment and sleeping bags LongHairGal. I'm still kinda fuzzy on whether the KH's are suppose to survive the "The End"... are they? I think you imply that they are. Out of all the death and destruction that is suppose to happened when "A" comes, the KH's will be spared? Is there a force field that will surround these particular buildings protecting them from the fire and death? This is all hard to fathom.
Have a good day.
if i remember correctly, many christians have been tortured and killed through the centuries.
their enemies killed them.
none of them that i know of ever had power over rattlesnakes or scorpions to the extent these critters never bit them.........so.......did jesus lie that they would be immune to deadly critters, and that they wouldn't ever be harmed,.....or did god allow a spurious scripture in his spirit directed holy word that could have caused the death of many if they trusted this scripture?.
Gumby,
You've got a lot of passion and vigor, and this impresses me. And I understand, but do not necessarily agree, with a lot of the things you are saying. Keep in mind however, that Jesus did not come among us 2000+ years ago to change the world. He eventually ended up doing so and 1.5 billions Christians in world today attest to that. He could have come into the world 2000 years ago and just took over. He could have told everyone he was God, but in a man's disguise, and everyone better do what he said, or else. He didn't as we all know. He came and live a poor as he could (as Ghandi, MLK, Mother Theresa, and others did). He did not force anyone to believe what he taught, nor does he now. You either believe, or you don't believe. We all have free wills to accept or reject his teachings; it's up to you. Brainwashing has nothing to do with it. There are those more devoted than others; believe with more intensity than others, but brainwashing, no, I don't think so. Brainwashing is what happens to those under the control of the WTS (how to dress, which way to have sex, beard or no beard, etc., etc.)
I guess the point I'm trying to get across that we all have free wills. We believe in what we want to believe in, or don't want to believe in. You apparently believe Jesus was some insignificant idealog, one of many back in his time by the way, and you may be right. Have you been brainwashed to believe in this way, or are you using your free will to mold and form you beliefs? Some of us believe that he is something more than just insignificant, and that some, or all, of his thoughts and ideas have meaning and structure.
Just my thoughts. Have a nice day.
if i remember correctly, many christians have been tortured and killed through the centuries.
their enemies killed them.
none of them that i know of ever had power over rattlesnakes or scorpions to the extent these critters never bit them.........so.......did jesus lie that they would be immune to deadly critters, and that they wouldn't ever be harmed,.....or did god allow a spurious scripture in his spirit directed holy word that could have caused the death of many if they trusted this scripture?.
I don't believe Jesus told a fib.
If I am not mistaken, In Luke 10, Jesus is talking to "70 others" plus the 12 apostles. And, I believe in Luke 10:19 he is only talking to these 82, not Christian for centuries to come, and the first group of his disciples and chosen followers that went out by two's to spread the word.
i always wondered why we were not spending the money to build halls in remote and poor areas that needed them - but instead we would build new halls and sell old ones in places where we were seeing little growth.. every congregation in this area has built a new hall in the past 20 or so years.
yet the congs are the same basic size they were before.
most have had a least one major remodel since building new.
Are the KH's suppose to survive the "end"? Maybe the reason for the continued use of 40 year shingles.
Jehovah is found several time in the OT, never in the NT. The JW's incorrectly added it to the NT approximately 235 times, and several time to the OT, adding to the what is already there. A good measuring stick is the JW's own Kingdom Interlinier Translation (the purple one). No where in the greek, or left, side of the page does the name Jehovah appear. Yet on the right side (and you can count them) the JW's have added, to accomodate their twisted beliefs, the name Jehovah the 235 or so times. And of course we know about all the other doctrine enhancing changes they've made above and beyond the addition of the name Jehovah; "the word was a god," etc. Pretty sick.
i have taken a break from the board for a week because i am just burnt out.
i am still praying every day that the seeds i have planted grow but so far nothing is going on.
this past weekend was really bad and she saw me when she got back from being with a bunch of jws.
Hello Shawn. I continue to wish the best for you, although it sounds like she is pretty much gone. You have become number 49 on her list of 50 of people important to her now. If you were married to her all you would be is an "unbelieving mate," not a husband. The WTS has, for the most part, would have filled those shoes. I suspect there is some hope, though not much, since you are not married, although I would venture to guess that since she is also still single there are those JW's closest to her, and counseling her, recommending that she find a nice "brother" to hitch up with, and totally detach herself from a worldly person like yourself. Don't be surprised if she further distances herself from you as time goes on. I don't paint a pretty picture, and I am sorry.
As I've told you in previous posts, I went through same thing, and for a good year tried every trick in the book to have my ex-wife compromise with me, even in the smallest way. The final day in court was the darkest for me. I as much begged her, minutes before we went in to see the judge, to not allow the divorce to continue, and not to destroy our family our marriage, life, but leave the JW's. All to no avail. I looked into her eyes and only saw the dark, deep, and complete control of the WTS. It was as though I were talking to a manakin; she wasn't even listening to me.
Good luck to you Shawn and GB.
well here is todays update.
we cannot be friends.
came over today and said that she needs this to be .
Shawn,
I really hope it works out for you. In my similar situation (lost my wife of 20 years to the JW's. We were divorced in 2003) we made similar promises, as you, to each other; to stay in touch; to be around for each other if the need arose, etc. Guess What? I am just about totally shunned by her now. I try to stay in touch by sending her a "how are you card" every once in a while hoping for a simply reply that she is doing ok. I have also seen her several time (we live 15 mins apart) over past few months. In each case she avoided eye contact and ignored me as though I did not exist. I took all this to mean that as I am no longer her husband, I am nothing but worldly and satan controlled, as the rest of the 6 billion people in the world supposedly are. What is sad aspect of my situation, and a recent development, is that my daughter, although not a JW (I think and pray that she is not), and my Ex are very very close. I became a grandfather 7 months ago and have only seen my daughter and grandson once in this period (my daughter live with my ex, again, only 15 mins away).Trying to call here is difficult as well. And on, and on, and on...
Anyway, again, I wish you the best, and hope everything works out ok for you, but at the same time, don't be surprised if it doesn't. Your friend may now feel that because ties with you have been "officially" severed, she is free to expand her involvement with the WTS, which will mean her "WTS recommended" association with JW's only, which she may follow to the tee.
GB and the best to you.
fjtoth, you're way out in left field on this one. First off, there are similarities between every religious organizaion in the world today, similar to the ones you state below.
Catholics have a College of Cardinals and JWs have their Governing Body.
Not even a close compaison. College of Cardinals are a representation of a world religion representing 1.1 billion people (1/6th of world population). The Governing Body hides themselves in a bldg in the middle of downtown New York controlling a pithy 6 million dillusional followers.
Catholics have a pope, and the JWs have a president who, at least in the recent past (Rutherford, Knorr), exercised authority considered to be infallible.
Again, no comparison. When all the major news networks cover, for a period of week, the death and election of a WTS president then I will agreee that there is a semblance of similarity.
Catholics have clergy and laity categories, and JWs have their Governing Body members; "anointed class;" Bethelites; zone, district and circuit overseers; elders; pioneers; and others who are in a separate category from ordinary congregation publishers.
No comparison, again. A simple priest only becomes a priest after he finishes up 4-6 years of theological study. He is not elevated to a higher position, as someone moving into an elder slot, simply because he has been around longer than someone else, or is a better speaker. Most, if not all of the clergy of the RCC, speak a foreign language (latin in most cases). Many are multi-lingual, such as the recently deceased Pope, John Paul II, and the new Pope, Benedict 16. Most of the Cardinals have doctorates in theology, such as Benedict 16. And so forth and so on... Again, no comparison.
Catholics have archbishops, and JWs have zone overseers.
No comparison. See above.
Catholics have bishops, and JWs have district and circuit overseers. This comparison may be a bit fuzzy, but there is some resemblance.
No comparison. See above
Catholics place their church above the Bible, and so do JWs.
Negative. I'd like to know where are getting you information.
Catholics practice shunning through excommunications, and JWs do the same through disfellowshippings.
Negative. First off excommunication is very rare and not publically announced. If someone were excommunicated, not many would know about it, let alone shun the individual. Disfellowshipping is not rare. An RCC is not excommunicated for smoking, or attending another church, or questioning what a priest, bishop, or even what the Pope has got to say. And, by the way, every church has a similar disciplinary avenue, but none use it as much as the WTS.
Catholics for many centuries taught that salvation was dependent upon being a member of their organization. JWs teach that about themselves.
Negative. Salvation is through faith and grace.
Catholics worship Mary, and JWs worship their "mother organization."
Negative. Mary is not worshipped. She is not God. She is honored as the mother of God.
Catholics have their "saints," and JWs have their "anointed."
No compaison. How do annointed become annointed. Flash of light, sound of thunder? It normally takes a person, through a great deal of scrutiny and question, years to finally be recognized as a saint. Mother Theresa is currently going through the process and will be lucky to reach saint status, if she does, in the next 20 years.
Catholics have their Vatican City, and JWs have their tax-exempt central headquarters buildings on vast properties in the state of New York.
Have not idea what you mean here. The Vatican is a country, the smallest in the world.
The Catholic Church has great wealth, and the JW branches worldwide pull in more than a billion US dollars each year.
Agree. Not sure what your point is here.
The pope is said to be "the Vicar of Christ," and JWs equate their leaders with Christ by claiming the WT Society is controlled by and speaks for Jehovah himself as his "channel."
Sort of agree with you here, although the Pope has never claimed to get direction through personal communication with angels, as the WTS claims the GB does.
Catholics claim the line of popes extends back to the apostles, and JWs claim their heritage can be traced back to the apostles through various groups such as the Lollards, the Waldenses and others.
RCC's can show a historical documented line a succession. Don't think JW's can. No comparison.
For many centuries, the Catholic Church created a climate of fear by use of the Inquisition, the Jesuits, heresy trials and other authoritarian methods, and today JWs stir up fear in their members through heresy or apostasy trials, disfellowshipping committees and secret black lists of persons under suspicion.
For many centuries, yes. Now, no. Men are imperfect. The RCC past is nothing shout and cheer about. Though through all the good and the bad the RCC has flourished. In contrast, The WTS/JW for past 100 years, and at present, is nothing to shout and cheer about. How many have died over the years because of the cultish doctrines of no blood transfusions, no vaccinations, and no transplants. The RCC has apologised for it's past indescretions. Will the WTS apologise for the death of so many (a good number of them children)? In the past 25 years there were 250 million new members. Converts come to the RCC and remain because of a faith and love for Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, the WTS and JW's can't match this, and never will. Their Door-to-door antics are a failure and always will be. As a cult I give them another 15 to 20 years before its members finally figure it out and the organization self destructs.
ranked #1: roman catholic church - 66,407,105. .
see: http://www.ncccusa.org/news/04yearbook.html.
ranked #1: roman catholic church: 62,391,484. .
Steve2
The RCC is like the BORG, is like the Lutherans, is llike the Baptists, is like the Methodist, is like the Presbyterians, is like the Evangelical Christians, etc., etc., and etc. The are all similar and the same. They all have their leaders who's words and edicts, in most cases, have some sort of finality to them. In a majority of cases, like the RCC for instance, negotiation, comment, criticism, or just plan arguing a point of doctrine, is permissible. I can disagree with RCC doctrine, even disagree with the Pope, without a threat of dissassociation, disfellowship, or shunning. Priests don't come to someones door wanting to know why a mass or two was missed. 50% of the RCC don't spy on the other 50% like the JW's do hoping to catch someone smoking or watching a R rated movie, then reporting to an Elder.
The Pope is not always the final authority! He can be overruled, but seldom is, if he pronounces some off-the-wall rule or regulation (like the WTS does a lot). This is what the College of Cardinals, and others, are all about, a sort of checks and balance. He is not a dictator, nor in any way, shape or form anything like the WTS Governing body. Who checks up on the Governing Body? Who is their checks and balance? Who is going to tell them that committing suicide, or murder, by refusing a blood transfusion is really stupid. Who is going to tell them anything, without fear of being booted. I have know people who have been away from the RCC for years. No one bugs or bothers them, and they are welcomed back, if they so decide, with no questions asked.
The WTBTS/JW's are an animal unto their own. They are a cult the holds its members in check through fear and guilt. The RCC, and the Pope, is 2000 years strong, give or take a few years, albeit with a very colored history. Although there have been numerous procedural changes over this time period, the essential idea and doctrine has really never changed, that is, the body and blood of Jesus Christ, and the celebration of this during mass.
i have a new situation in my circumstance.
sorry to keep bothering you all but i need help, a lot of help.
my friend finally came over today and we talked for a while.
Shawn,
I am not a JW, but want to throw my 2 cents worth into this whole frail. I have chatted with CYP in the past regarding this subject. I lost my wife to the JW's a little over a year ago. I made the same mistakes you're making now. TAKE YOUR TIME. You will never win an augument against her. She is in her little JW paradigm box and will stay there now that they have taken hold of her. The more you try to show her that the WTS is wrong or an evil organization the deeper she goes into the recesses of her box. Again, TAKE YOUR TIME. I did the flower bit to the point that our home almost looked like a floral garden. I love the hell out of her and tried to rationalize with her about what she was doing to our marriage and family. She did not care. I should have taken my time, I didn't. I wanted to "cure" her immediately and make her the way she was before the JW's got their hooks into her; and there was a distinct change in here when this happened by the way. She became a different woman, very distant and aloof. She never told me about her involvement to begin with (upon recommendation of the JW who was doing her bible study with her). I finally found out by discovering (about 8 months after she had started) an Awake she had hidden. She essentially divorced me after she became seriously involved with them. I simply became an object in her life, not the husband she once had. On her list of important things in her life her family, me, our life, our holidays, etc. were relegated to the end of the list. WTS, Jehovah, meetings, service work, etc. now were at the top of the list.
I could go on and on Shawn. Again, if you value this friendship at all, TAKE YOU TIME. This means you may have to slowly work with her for year, two years, three, maybe more. I did not heed this advice when I was in you shoes and lost a wife of 20 years because of it.
Best of luck to you.
